Advice for aspiring Studio Players or anyone that wants to "Go Pro"

[Bassist_Ben]

hey tommix,
umm i am 13 and i starting learning last year and i was wondering....is it too late??? And i have a band at the age of 13 lol coinsedence.....i dont knw how to speelll....thanks

[therealting]

Originally Posted by Bassist_Ben

hey tommix,
umm i am 13 and i starting learning last year and i was wondering....is it too late??? And i have a band at the age of 13 lol coinsedence.....i dont knw how to speelll....thanks

Too late?! You're 13, you have the whole world ahead of you.

I would say that at 13, keep playing, be focused in school and be curious about the world. It is a time to enjoy, to explore and to learn as much as you can about as much as you can... and hopefully you'll never stop.

[ashwilliams]

That was a great read.

I am 20 and living in Australia, have just started session work, been told by many proffessionals that I am the best, yet didn't know anything about the flatwound idea and some of the other great comments.

I play new techniques (Victor main, and my own inventions), but like the sound of your fretless "fakie"

Could I ask you a question? What sort of work is there over in the U.S.A for session players? Here I am doing alot of country and rock, and my own solo album, but what do you do over there?

Thanx for the read, hope it stays!

www.bassthis.com

[tommixx]

Its NEVER too late to get started....nor is it ever soon enough....Keep playing and stay focused on what you want to do and go for it!

Ash...Anything and Everything you can imagine!! Thank you for taking the time, I hope it helps you to a long and fruitful career!!!!

Peace,

T

[Blackbird]

Y'see, Tom?

Miscellaneous ain't so bad.

[jenderfazz]

Cool thread!

[nspark]

To tommixx and all the other contributors to this thread, I want to thank you for a very interesting, insightful read. I would love to play bass for a living, but I'm sure I'll be sticking with my "daygig" of working towards being a mathematician. I'll always be a bassist, though. Still, I would love to do some studio work sometime and I'm sure I'll look back to this thread and the advice that was given.

I do have one question, though. How does one come up with bass lines? For me, I try to always have something that grooves, but in my church gigs, the music is often very simple. I'm sure a bassist much better than I could make the most basic G-C-D guitar strumming groove like nothing else, but a lot of my lines sound too similar. Is there online "starter material" (like drum and/or guitar tracks) to work off of? In general, I just want to expand my ability to groove and come up with fresh, new lines.

Also, about Maroon5, I'm almost not surprised. I've seen them live (on TV) a few times and the bass player sure didn't seem to groove at all with the music or even his own bass playing. Just my thoughts, though.

[tommixx]

thanks nspark and all you guys for taking the time.....

as far as how I come up with lines it all depends....sometimes the parts are already written, sometimes I am asked to write them, alot of times there is something written which I will put down and then the producer wants me to do another take or 2 with something that I come up with....For me, most of the time I just "hear" the parts I play in my head as I play them...sounds weird but I usually don't really "write" things out...maybe take some notes here and there as I get the structure in my head and then bang just go for it!!

My advice is listen to a LOT of different music...a C is a C in any piece of music....figure out where things go and what sounds good together (reading and theory in practice) and don't be afraid to take chances!! Who says you can't do that?

The key is....GET STARTED NOW!!

Peace,

T

[Thunderfunk]

I'd like to address a couple of points here.

Originally Posted by nspark

I'll be sticking with my "daygig" of working towards being a mathematician.

Math and music seem to go together, ESPECIALLY FOR steel guitar players. Take ten strings and lots of different tunings, and you'll find a math genius on the slide.

Originally Posted by nspark

How does one come up with bass lines?

I consider myself a "melodic" bass player, but music is all about the drums. I started playing guitar when my mom said she wouldn't let me play drums. I think that's why I ended up on bass.

Originally Posted by tommixx

It's about making it fit and making it vibe with the rest of the players ESPECIALLY THE DRUMMER in the context of the song.

You play off the drummer, for sure. Even in the studio, EQ is used to separate the bass drum from the bass guitar because they're so closely related. But I'd like to make a slightly off topic comment. Why are there so many bad drummers? I've played with a lot of them. When I was a bandleader and held auditions one keyboard player would show up; three guitar players; and 10 drummers. I think the lack of keyboard players is due to (IMHO) being a difficult instrument, and the fact that they don't need you. Can you say, "Piano Bar?" But many a night I had to play with a drummer who couldn't do a side-tom roll and end up back on the beat. Even with 10 drummers to choose from, was hard to find a good one. All great bands have great drummers... Zeppelin, The Doobies (two!), The Allmans (two!), The Eagles, Genesis, The Who, YES (two?), and don't forget why Ringo got the job! As tommixx said, if you can't sync with the drummer, it ain't gonna happen. The Eagles where on NBC last night and they said what was good about the band today is they really listen to each other. If I knew then... I would tape record every performance and listen to it. You'll hear what the audience had to endure. Sort of like taking it out of the heat of battle. I think you'll hear things to improve immediately. And pick better songs!

[tommixx]

Dave...what a GREAT post!! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! I couldn't agree more!

You are so right!! I can't tell you how many drummers (and OTHER musicians but ESPECAILLY guitarists and drummers it seems!) I have played with over the years that can play fills and solos ALL day but can't come back in on the count!!! JESUS guys!! Learn to play melodically AND rhythmicaly (?) because one day YOU will have to count for a drummer that can't!!! LOL!! SO SAD but TRUE!! The really cool thing is that when you play with a great drummer (and you WILL know it immediately!!) You will understand what all the fuss is about!!

Listen, I think I can probably play most anything with most anybody and hold my own....BUT I KNOW that when it comes to keeping a goove down and holding the line where it is right and tight is my forte.....keeping it grooving is where I am from and to me, that is where I belong!! I'm just holding the bottom and helping to create that pocket!!! A GREAT drummer makes it SO easy to stretch outside that pocket a bit when called for but a sloppy drummer will keep you on your toes!!!!!

Good advice from Dave here....Learn to count if you can't and help that sloppy musician learn to if you can (but tactfully!!)

The other GREAT advice here is tape your gigs or rehearsals....I tape every gig I do through an Alesis Masterlink that I have in a 2 space rack....I typically will make a copy of the sets for the other musicians I play with.....IT REALLY makes a difference to see what is working and what is not!!

Peace,

T

[nspark]

Originally Posted by tommixx

For me, most of the time I just "hear" the parts I play in my head as I play them...sounds weird but I usually don't really "write" things out...

tommixx, it doesn't sound weird at all! To be honest, I often hear lines in my head, I just can't make that line come out of the bass right away without figuring it out note for note. I guess that's something I should really put some work on.

There's such an incredible wealth of knowledge and experience here on TB. Thanks for sharing just a bit of that, guys. I was worried that no one would see this after I saw that the most recent post (before mine) was from 5/9. Nope! Thanks again!

[naughtry]

Thanks to everyone who posted! I enjoyed reading through this, very interesting and insightful.

I was wondering something though...

I'm not a very advanced or diverse player but I do have a VERY good musical sense and ‘producers’ ear. I can play well in time with good taste, have pro gear/tone, know music theory (classically trained on other instruments), etc. Only problem is I’ve only played bass in rock and hardcore/metal type bands and my playing ability is focused around those styles.

I was recently in a pro studio for the first time ever and was chosen over professionals with at least 15 years more years experience for the reasons mentioned above. Are there studio bassists who make a living only doing certain styles and such? I imagine yes but you got to be lucky and get in the right situation but I am pretty clueless as to how it is in reality.

I’m not counting on the whole rock star thing working out and I really would like to do music as a career. I’m still in my early 20s so have a little time to work on my weaknesses and improve my overall playing ability but I guess I am just curious if you guys had any suggestions at to what it takes as far as playing ability and being proficient in many styles?

[tommixx]

nspark...the ability to play what you hear, for me at least, comes from 32 years of playing and a very strong foundation of theory and ear training!! It is something that everyone can do and what most of us aspire to....with practice, patience, and persistence it WILL happen!!

naughtry....I think it helps to have a diverse knowledge of a lot of styles but as I said a C is a C on the instrument...the key is to become proficient in using the same notes in different ways....there are certainly players out there that are making a living (a good one at that) playing specific types of music...every touring act that has a bass player, every orchestra pit, every show in Vegas, Atlantic City, Monte Carlo, etc etc...not to mention theme parks, special bands (such as Military) and the like....there are far more opportunities than people realize and you will always get your NEXT job based on the LAST one you had...

Now get to work and you can get there!!

Peace,

T

[The_Ryst]

I'm a 14 year old bass player and I've been playing since I was eleven. I just seriously got into bass last december and I'm looking forward to a career in music. I'm actually going into the recording studio with a band of mine soon, and I'm looking forward for that to be the first of many. I also know a guy who's building a studio and he says he can use me as a studio bassist....I'm really pumped, but my problem is money/gear. I have an Ibanez GSR200, now, I can get a sweet sound out of it by playing and EQ and whatnot, but who's going to take a 14 year old with a GSR200 seriously? I hope that my chops will show them....

Six strings basses I heard are big no nos....that's what I'm getting next though. After that maybe I'll look into a great 4 string, but I'm learning towards a Stingray 5 after my six string...

[Aaron Saunders]

Originally Posted by The_Ryst

I hope that my chops will show them....

I'd reccomend giving this topic another once over...they've come to the conclusion that you don't get hired on chops several times over. That said, there's always someone willing to take a chance. I've heard time and time again from pro studio players that there are two very specific things that will help you into doing sessions: make as many connections as possible, and play live the music you wantto play in a studio. People see you play, people like what they here, you talk to people, people hire you, you play for people, people give you money and future gigs.

That said, on the equipment thing, unless you're in Kentucky doing bluegrass sessions, a 6 string probably wouldn't hurt your chances of a job. Also, an SR5 is the weapon of choice for a great number of pro players. Basically, any Fender-design-based instrument will be another "we-want-to-hire-you" point in the gear department. This includes G&Ls and high end Fender clones (Mike Lull, Celinder, etc., of course the most popular amongst studio musos like tommixx being Sadowsky.)

Tommixx, I've read this topic a couple of times, and there's always some great stuff to come back and read. I'm another younger player (17, almost 18) looking forward to a career in music. My gear situation is finally coming together, in as much as I'm getting the variety of basses I need -- I just got a hold of a very nice DB (50 year old German with an Underwood pickup and Fishman preamp,) my fretless is in the shop getting a dressing of the board and a nice polyurethane coating (and the bow for the DB is getting a rehair) and my fretted is sounding great lately. I've got a very reliable Yorkville XS400 combo, good sounding passive DI box, and a small bass surgery kit I keep in a Remington electric razor carrying case. Pretty budget gear (except for the DB) but it sounds great and is reliable. Any things I should check into, gear wise? After I pay off the DB, I'll be looking into 6 strings and once I get it, I'll be stringing my fretted up with TI flats. After that would probably be an Acoustic Image amplifier, but I'm not quite sure on that.

[tommixx]

Thanks again guys....Govithoy....The Ryst.....I don't want anyone to get the idea that you should have this particular bass or that....an SR5 that is set up properly and sounds good live or on tape (as much the player as the rig) will sound just as good as anything else in the right context....I guess some are equating the fact that I use certain things means they should too which is quite contrary to the point I was trying to make...

What I am really trying to get across are some basics as far as gear goes 4 string, 4 string with flats, 5 string, possibly fretless or DB depending on session or gig, good GIG BAG of necessaries like strings, console tape, a digital stopwatch, a NEW Sharpie, a few towels, WATER, a couple pair of drumsticks, a drum key (I keep a neat one that folds up on my car key ring!!) a couple sets of guitar strings, EXTRA CABLES, a REALLY good DI (or 2), and believe it or not for live gigs, a couple SM57's (for me Audix I5's!!!).....I add these things because you never know when you will have the chance to save a session!!! Think out of the box!! That is what gets other peoples attention...YOU HAVE to give them a reason to want to hire and THEN a reason to KEEP hiring you!!! What if the drummer forgot sticks or a key? What happens if the engineer forgot the console tape or his Sharpie, the digital stopwatch is used to figure delay times...some of us OLD guys still do it that way anyway!! ANYTIME you can make yourself stand out in someone's mind you WILL gain from it....

My nickname is Mr. Prepared, the above list is incomplete but it gives you an idea why...it is a running joke with most of my clients that it seems like I have everything ALL the time....I have a simple, small gig bag (just bought a new one from GC today called Gig Skinz) that is VERY carefully laid out so I can put my hand right on the thing I need when I need it. Granted I have had years to put it together but all you have to do is ask yourself what a session MIGHT POSSIBLY NEED???? Who are the players? What are the instruments? Even the MOST SEASONED PROS CAN FORGET STUFF!! WHEN they do don't jump up and start yelling HEY, I GOT A SHARPIE!! Politely hand them one and very casually say here ya go man....I NEVER ASK FOR IT BACK!! They usually offer and I tell them to keep it for next time!! How MANY can you buy for $4.00??? You know??? I buy them 12 or 24 at a time!!!!!

Guess what the guy remebers? He may not remember squat about the session BUT he (or she to be fair) WILL remember that you saved their a$$ and when it comes time to book another session who do you think they will call??? Reread my Will Lee story in the beginning and think about it for a second.....HE SAVED THOSE guys (remember he had been booked for a VOCAL session so it was not his fault but he did not sweat it!!) and not only never took any credit for it, but acted like it was what he was supposed to do...BECAUSE it is!!!

Don't get caught up in specific gear....get caught up in the professionalism, the reading, the chops, and above all else, the right attitude!! NOONE wants to work with a$$hol&s!!! THere are a plenty of those out there.....as long as you bring something to the table that the next guy can't, you WILL work....I would rather hire a solid player with average skills with the right attitude and that can pull it off than some prima donna that is gonna be disruptive to the session........KEEP PLAYING AND KEEP DREAMING!!!!

Peace,

T

[steveksux]

The big thing in music is the feel, you can have monster chops, great time, sightread like a demon, but in the end, its how you interact with the drummer, the music, to create a groove.

I got my first "pro" bass gig after only playing a couple years, with a vastly more experienced band. Told them I'd been playing for pay in wedding bands since 16, didn't mention that was on "trumpet", not bass. I'd only been playing bass 3-4 years at a that point. It was my "feel' that made the difference, I played with passion.

When going over the charts for the first gig, I mentioned the keyboard player would be better off writing bass lines in treble clef for me if they write any more from scratch. Got me a really funny look. Didn't say anything.

Night before the gig, keyboard player says, "Worst case, if we run out of material we can fake pretty well, we'll just play some of the songs you used to play in the wedding band." I said, no we're not. "Why not?" I played mostly trumpet in that band. The only songs I did on bass were "Proud Mary" and "Boogie Ooogie Oogie". The look on her face was PRICELESS!

Randy

[dblbass007]

I read the whole thread. Some good, some bad. I do nothing but play bass. All day. Actually make a living. I have $20, 000 in instruments and a couple music degrees. Life is good. I have been in the studio more times than I can count but figured out something important. Im nobodys bitch. If the producer or the artist starts making insane demands, I pack up my **** and walk out. Lifes too short for grief. I know some of you dont have that luxury but think about it. I make art not crap. If you are a real musician you might rethink selling out.
And for the aspiring kids, got to school! Get good grades, enter regional and all-state and learn double-bass. True, its not the guy with the biggest guns who wins the gunfight but it shure scares the piss out of your opponents. Just do it.

[tommixx]

dblbass007....we are all happy for you......I certainly don't consider myself "anybody's bitch" either, but I am a professional and I do think that you should try and give the person who hired you their money's worth.....packing your **** probably will not get you many more gigs with the people who hired you and it certainly will not be very good for your reputation over the long haul......but hey, if life is good, maybe you don't need that next gig anyway.....just a thought...I don't consider being able to walk out on a session a "luxury"....I consider it pretty stupid considering the people I work with everyday.....Not exactly the kind of advice I would give but hey, what do I know...I've only done about 4,000 or so studio sessions and live gigs and made a living at it for about 25 years........However, I defer to your experience......There you have it folks, there is a better way......

Peace,

T

[The_Ryst]

My musical slut career began this year, when I played 2 shows I loathed but got paid for it. I'm 14 and looking forward to an illustrious bass career:-D (The two shows were Honky Tonk and 50's rock which isn't bad.) When I got paid I realized, I can do this for a living...and it's not that bad!

Tommixx, is a 6 string/5string a big no no in the recording industry? A bassist I know said they won't hire you if you have one....help please! Also, are there any method books you recomend or instructional dvds at all?