Advice for aspiring Studio Players or anyone that wants to "Go Pro"

[tommixx]

The_Ryst....The number of strings is not as important as how well you play them!! I personally play mostly 4's but do get calls for 5 string stuff as well......Nathan East is one of the most in demand cats out there and he plays sixes almost exclusively....I think that a lot of engineers see a player come in with 6 strings and think uh oh another soloist!! If you are a supportive player there tends to be less of a need for more than 5 strings ( I am SURE there are people here who disagree, this is JUST MY OPINION!!) and I believe that most guys who play 6's tend to play with a 6 string mentality (at least IMO and DEFINITLEY NOT a bad thing) meaning more fills and higher passages versus simple meat and potatoes in the pocket playing.....(Remember a LOT of times you play from charts so if possible get a copy of the charts before the session and see if there is room for a 6 or more and if so go for it).....I don't necessarily think that this is fundamentally a bad thing it just is an issue for some producers....

If the gig calls for a 6 use one....if it does not bring a 4 or a 5 and I think the first impression will be better for all (again, in my experience!!!) Once you have established yourself with the engineer and producer I don't think it really matters much what you bring to the session at least for me....Once I am comfortable (as an engineer) with a player I don't get caught up in the gear they use for the session (as long as it sounds good and does the job)

as far as books or DVD's I would say find out what the curriculum books at BIT (Musician's Institue) are currently and get them....DVD's are a good tool and I believe that you can learn from EVERYBODY so pick an artist in the style of music you play and start from there...Good Luck!!

Peace,

T

[masmasbasso]

Originally Posted by tommixx

The_Ryst....The number of strings is not as important as how well you play them!! I personally play mostly 4's but do get calls for 5 string stuff as well......Nathan East is one of the most in demand cats out there and he plays sixes almost exclusively....I think that a lot of engineers see a player come in with 6 strings and think uh oh another soloist!! If you are a supportive player there tends to be less of a need for more than 5 strings ( I am SURE there are people here who disagree, this is JUST MY OPINION!!) and I believe that most guys who play 6's tend to play with a 6 string mentality (at least IMO and DEFINITLEY NOT a bad thing) meaning more fills and higher passages versus simple meat and potatoes in the pocket playing.....(Remember a LOT of times you play from charts so if possible get a copy of the charts before the session and see if there is room for a 6 or more and if so go for it).....I don't necessarily think that this is fundamentally a bad thing it just is an issue for some producers....

If the gig calls for a 6 use one....if it does not bring a 4 or a 5 and I think the first impression will be better for all (again, in my experience!!!) Once you have established yourself with the engineer and producer I don't think it really matters much what you bring to the session at least for me....Once I am comfortable (as an engineer) with a player I don't get caught up in the gear they use for the session (as long as it sounds good and does the job)

as far as books or DVD's I would say find out what the curriculum books at BIT (Musician's Institue) are currently and get them....DVD's are a good tool and I believe that you can learn from EVERYBODY so pick an artist in the style of music you play and start from there...Good Luck!!

Peace,

T

Right, the perception in general is against extended range instruments.The most legitmate reason is a concern that the player will have problems controlling (muting) the extended strings, and the other reason is "what kind of player am I getting this this 5,6,7+ string bass". Are they going to spend a lot of time on the low B (or worse the higher strings) for this straight ahead rock session. Think about how your prejudice would be if you hired a guitar player for a "Strokes" type song and you were expecting a les paul or something appropriate and they show up with a 9 string steve vai guitar. They might do a great job at executing and playing the right parts with the right sound, but you kind of had a Les Paul in mind and not a pink 9 string. Many engineers/producers seem to like the fender-ish type bass. They know it and it is comfort food for them.

I play with a guy named Matt Nathanson and the guy that played on his last record (before I joined up) used a 55-94 on a good part of the record. It is pretty much straight ahead rock and the guy is riding the low B, playing straight 8ths on some songs and it just sounds wrong to me and to Matt. They ended up replacing his parts on some of the other songs for that same reason. The guy that replaced the parts was a guitar player playing a 70's P bass. There are tons of songs that benefit from the lower range of a 5 string, but in the end most producers seem to hear bass in the 4 string range with a "fendery" sound.

We are recording Matt's record next month in San Francisco and I'm taking my Sadowsky 4 string metro, my 1964 Precision and my Lakland USA hollowbody plus my old carved upright. I'm not planning on bringing my 55-94. So far the producer hasn't asked for any low B action in preproduction, but I'll just string one of the basses B-D and hope my nut can take it if he does, which I seriously doubt will come up. If I was local to san fran I would take the 55-94, but Matt is paying to ship my gear out there and I have to pick and choose.

Remember to think like a producer and focus on crafting the song. Like I said in a post on the first page. Be a slave to the song......always.

[tommixx]

Thanks Mas.....That got me thinking that I should have added that I almost always take a 5 string to sessions these days unless I KNOW that I won't need it.....I usually know most of my clients on the gigs I do and they know me (and my gear) well enough to ask me to bring certain things.....If I can only take 2 Basses I will take a Streamer Stage I 5 (or Thumb 5 NT depending on material) and my Sadowsky Vintage 4 with Flats to EVERY SESSION.....I will typically be VERY sparing and tasteful on the low notes and I never overplay unless I am asked to add something "extra".....I usually have at least 1 take that is "mine to do what I feel" though not always.....I NEVER assume that I will!!!

Peace,

T

[The_Ryst]

I feel like a small dog in such a big game. I mean, with cats like you on bass, who would want to hire me? KNow what Imean? I know a guy who's starting a studio though, so I'm getting my start.

[CamMcIntyre]

Originally Posted by The_Ryst

I feel like a small dog in such a big game. I mean, with cats like you on bass, who would want to hire me? KNow what Imean? I know a guy who's starting a studio though, so I'm getting my start.

I'm not much older than you [19] & i leave for music school in about a month and a half [Aug. 26th-i'm moving to Chicago]. I've been playing heavily for the past 5 years and halfing it for going on 8 years.

The main way that i deal with the "who'd hire me w/cats like them?" mentality is a mix of reality and well-evil sarcasm. A. They can't play every session & when they move on either to another avenue or well-die, who is going to fill those shoes?

If you dig playing-go for it. I'm not the best player around my town, but i have gotten called to do a few types of gigs. My calls have been a mix of choral gigs, a praise and worship band [i play for the fun & well-fullfillment of it], and then on occasion-i get a call to play some DB. The choral gigs really relate to when they said "play live what you want to play in the studio".

Part of how i've gotten my name out there is that i played for all the bands and choirs at my high school for the past four years. So that lead to when one of my teachers got sick-i was asked to fill in for the middle school spring choir show, and from doing that-the choir director at the middle school asked me to play with his outside of school youth chorus a few times. Another example-i played with the school's big band for four years, and then one of my band directors tipped me off to the Purdue Jazz Band could use another bassist for the summer concert. I sent an email and made a phone call-now i'm playing with that Big Band for the Summer. Finally the church gig [ok-my regular church gig]-one of the kids in one of the choir bands-his dad had him ask me if i'd be up for playing in theirs, ironically enough, the guy who i was replacing was my Uncle who was moving down south. It's amazing how things work out.

If your goals are like mine [to be as versatile as possible] play in everything that you can.

Gear wise-i play 5 strings nearly exclusively now with the exception of the upright. I have thought about buying a 4, but the funds haven't been that kind.

Most excellent posts Tomixx. Ever since i bought the POD Pro from you-it seems like you've been really open with sharing tips/stories with the rest of us.

[tommixx]

Thanks Cam...I think one of the most important parts of your post is LOST on a lot of people who want to work in the biz....and it is simply this.....you will get work based on the last thing you did...one thing ALWAYS leads to another (if you do good work!!) People will judge you and decide whether to work with you again or better yet, recommend you for another gig based on what you are doing right now.....Make sure that you treat EVERY gig, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem at the time, like you are working with a TOP name talent or a TOP Name venue....IT PAYS TO BE A PROFESSIONAL ALL THE TIME!!!!!

Peace,

T

[Jace The Bass]

Originally Posted by tommixx

Thanks Cam...I think one of the most important parts of your post is LOST on a lot of people who want to work in the biz....and it is simply this.....you will get work based on the last thing you did...one thing ALWAYS leads to another (if you do good work!!) People will judge you and decide whether to work with you again or better yet, recommend you for another gig based on what you are doing right now.....Make sure that you treat EVERY gig, no matter how small or insignificant it may seem at the time, like you are working with a TOP name talent or a TOP Name venue....IT PAYS TO BE A PROFESSIONAL ALL THE TIME!!!!!

Peace,

T

Amen to that brotha
Works very true for me even if it's a performance for a instution because you never know whose listening

[CamMcIntyre]

Originally Posted by Jace The Bass

Amen to that brotha
Works very true for me even if it's a performance for a instution because you never know whose listening

Mainly to highlight this and add even more emphasis. Yeah-i'm not the same kind of cat as Tomixx, Marty O'Brian, and the other studio/session guys nor am i the same as Ed Fuqua, Chris Fitzgerald, and Ray Parker [to mention a few names]. However, even in the beginning [where i am] that is vital.

FWIW, one of the guys that worked with my show choir band for my first year and then he arranges some of our music is/was the musical director at Cedar Point. I learned that *after* a year with him directing us. The other guy does a ton of arranging for choirs too, killer guy.

Am i going to get a gig from these guys? The 2nd one-most likely no. The first one? If i don't get a gig from him-i've gotten the ability to pick the brain at times of someone who *is* the kind of person i want to work for-musical/choir stuff where you come in-play a session, and go on to the next one.

2 years ago-i had the chance to participate in a "Disney Magic Music Days" with the show choir band. The singer dancers went off with the vocalists and got what sounded like a demonstration and then they got to learn some quick choreography, and a tune. What did the band do? We got to have a clinic/session with one of their trumpet players. [turns out-they designed it for us, they didn't know what to expect out of a group of high schoolers]

We got to pick his brain about what Disney is like to work for as a musician, and the different aspects. The thing that i remember most about the clinic/discussion was that he emphasized-BE VERSATILE and be willing to play anything.

I don't know how many of my fellow TBers are interested in playing for a theme park/coporation. We read a variety of arrangements of a few tunes. I think it was like a rock, swing, funk, ballad, and latin versions of the tunes. We got to sight read em and hear what it sounded like. I dug it. It turns out-that'd be a gig i would definately want. Play in a variety of situations-from Disney Cruise Lines, the parks, to in their sessions for move scores. Add in that it's in Orlando-you can visit Bass Central and spend your entire paycheck.

I'm learning this more and more-play every gig like your life depends on it-that you must play well. If you treat it with that mentality-if there's someone that could give you a gig in the audience, and they dig your package {playing, look, attitude}, you could very well land a gig.

That's all and keep it up guys-i love reading this thread.

[Jace The Bass]

Hey Tommix
One thing to add as there is this good bassplaya who can read play by ear great technique always reliable but has crap gear ie: A Trace elliot Combo with one bass and no transport will he still be reliable as he is a killer playa but his bussiness skills are lacking not forgettin the lack of equitment but will do anything to be a pro!
Any advice you could give also he has a good attitude

[Phil Smith]

Tommix,

What do you typically charge for a one hour recording session? What's the range of going rates?

[tommixx]

Jace the Bass....a good player will always sound like a good player....you don't necessarily have to have the best gear to work..but it helps to have the best gear you can afford to have that does the job that you need to accomplish.....start somewhere and your work will lead you to your next gig...

Phil Smith....I don't think I have ever been asked that unless someone wanted to book me and I almost hesitate to answer but it may help the thread so I will say this much.....it depends on the job!! If it is something that I really want to do and they don't have much of a budget I may do something for damn near free....If it is a good project with a decent budget (budgets have gotten a LOT smaller than they used to be) and I have worked for them before my rate can be anywhere from about $60/hour to as much as $400/Hour depending on what I am doing.....I make a higher rate for engineering and a higher rate if I am Producing and an even higher rate if I am doing a little of everything.......MOST of the time I willl give a FLAT day rate and that is my rate, PERIOD, 4 hours, 6 hours, 10 hours, it doesn't matter to me I still get my day rate.......I will NOT track or mix for more than 10 hours and then I insist on 2 1 hour breaks.....hearing fatigue RUINS a LOT of good music......it is not worth it, just give it rest after 4 or 5 hours NO MATTER WHAT!!!

People book me for different reasons.....I have clients that book me as an engineer and clients that book me as a musician......I also do arrangements and production management so I can, and often do wear a number of hats......typically, I will try to get exclusives on new artists I am doing a demo for to do their release if they get a deal and I will always go after points when I am Engineering or Producing.....I have and will do certain things for more or less depending again on what it is and where it is too.......if I am away from home I will also get per diem and all travel expenses including meals and lodging on TOP of the per diem......I have a number of clients that pay me bonuses for certain things as well so it all adds up......Hope that helps....

Peace,

T

[Phil Smith]

tommixx,

Thanks, your post makes a lot of sense and was in line with my own thinking and ideas.

[lefty]

one of the last studio gigs i did the producer was really against active pups. HATED `EM!!! (old school famous studio) fortunately my bass with actives pleased him. the guy who did bass before me caught hell from him and was playing a warwick thumb bass. my fretless has passives but after that i think i`m going to build another bass with passives.

[tommixx]

lefty....That is a very good point.....it is ALWAYS a good idea to recon the session if possible, find out if the engineer or producer or the act has a preference as far as gear is concerned.....see my example in my first post....you load in a bunch of stuff and the engineer wants a U5 direct to a passive four string and you bring a truckload of gear but only bring a fretless or an active 6 string.......might be a problem.....that is why I tend to take the things I do......

Peace,

T

[Ryan L.]

I have to say that this is the first 5 page thread that I have read all the way through, post by post, in a long time.

Very valuable information here. Great thread, tommixx.

[tommixx]

Thanks Ryan!! I think it has gotten better as more and more people have contributed to it!

Peace,

T

[The_Ryst]

Ah I was foolish when I posted earlier...I'm not pro, but I'm actually making decent money playing country music down here now (not even too huge of a fan, it's enjoyable though.)

It's not what your chops are...like if I went to a country gig and do what I do at home (slapping...tapping...fast playing, etc etc etc) I'd get sent home in a second. The root and the fifth are your friend, if a song calls for it, do it, and in most old country I've learned keep it simple.

People don't like a wanker with huge chops, especially if they're hiring you to play something simple like 50's music (something I do from time to time when a band needs a bassist) and country. You have to cater to your area and learn the styles that will get you gigs I guess. Nobody shows up to hear OOOLD country and bluegrass to watch me play a funk fest. And it doesn't hurt your playing at all, in fact, it makes you more solid as a player I feel to just do what you need to, nothing more.

Of course a good ear is essential so you can adapt and learn fast.

So you'll get more gigs if you're more simple, but more simple doesn't always mean worse, it means being mature to know where you belong.

I'm not a pro, but I'm saying I've gigged a lot more now that I'm willing to just be simple.

[tommixx]

Originally Posted by The_Ryst

Ah I was foolish when I posted earlier...I'm not pro, but I'm actually making decent money playing country music down here now (not even too huge of a fan, it's enjoyable though.)

It's not what your chops are...like if I went to a country gig and do what I do at home (slapping...tapping...fast playing, etc etc etc) I'd get sent home in a second. The root and the fifth are your friend, if a song calls for it, do it, and in most old country I've learned keep it simple.

People don't like a wanker with huge chops, especially if they're hiring you to play something simple like 50's music (something I do from time to time when a band needs a bassist) and country. You have to cater to your area and learn the styles that will get you gigs I guess. Nobody shows up to hear OOOLD country and bluegrass to watch me play a funk fest. And it doesn't hurt your playing at all, in fact, it makes you more solid as a player I feel to just do what you need to, nothing more.

Of course a good ear is essential so you can adapt and learn fast.

So you'll get more gigs if you're more simple, but more simple doesn't always mean worse, it means being mature to know where you belong.

I'm not a pro, but I'm saying I've gigged a lot more now that I'm willing to just be simple.

It is amazing what the benefit of a little knowledge and a little time will do, isn't it bud? You are definitely getting the point I'm trying to make. I call it meat and potatoes playing...you can earn a good living being a supportive player. That is not to say that you won't have your chance to shine at some point. Remember, if you want to be a solo player put together a good band to back you and pay them well to support your playing....otherwise play what is appropriate for the moment.

Another quick little story...Back in the latter part of the 80's there was this new band called Bon Jovi...they had written some commercially viable songs and had already gotten 1 song climbing the charts. They needed to go in the studio and put out these new songs while the fire was hot....there was only 1 problem, the band was for the most part, pretty damn good, young, inexperienced, but pretty good, except the bass player. It was decided that the "live" guy couldn't do the tracks for "whatever" reason. (I don't want to seem like I am trashing the guy, he did play on the live dates for years) Well it turns out that a guy named Hugh McDonald (a great bassist and first call session player) did all of the studio tracks and nobody (the public) ever knew the difference. Turns out the other guy could not keep it simple enough to keep up and was not a "session" type bassist. I know this because I toured with them as part of the crew.

Fast forward to years later, if you catch Bon Jovi these days guess who is playing bass on the albums AND the shows? Hughie!!

So my point is simple, play what the music dictates and stay focused and you will always work. I have really good chops and it is enough for me to know it until the time comes for me to use them. Then, I let EVERYBODY know what kind of chops I have. I am perfectly happy to be a pocket player and be the anchor for everybody else...remember, without an anchor, even the biggest ship will eventually be lost!! Keep on rockin........

Peace,

T

Peace,

T

[The_Ryst]

Originally Posted by tommixx

It is amazing what the benefit of a little knowledge and a little time will do, isn't it bud? You are definitely getting the point I'm trying to make. I call it meat and potatoes playing...you can earn a good living being a supportive player. That is not to say that you won't have your chance to shine at some point. Remember, if you want to be a solo player put together a good band to back you and pay them well to support your playing....otherwise play what is appropriate for the moment.

Another quick little story...Back in the latter part of the 80's there was this new band called Bon Jovi...they had written some commercially viable songs and had already gotten 1 song climbing the charts. They needed to go in the studio and put out these new songs while the fire was hot....there was only 1 problem, the band was for the most part, pretty damn good, young, inexperienced, but pretty good, except the bass player. It was decided that the "live" guy couldn't do the tracks for "whatever" reason. (I don't want to seem like I am trashing the guy, he did play on the live dates for years) Well it turns out that a guy named Hugh McDonald (a great bassist and first call session player) did all of the studio tracks and nobody (the public) ever knew the difference. Turns out the other guy could not keep it simple enough to keep up and was not a "session" type bassist. I know this because I toured with them as part of the crew.

Fast forward to years later, if you catch Bon Jovi these days guess who is playing bass on the albums AND the shows? Hughie!!

So my point is simple, play what the music dictates and stay focused and you will always work. I have really good chops and it is enough for me to know it until the time comes for me to use them. Then, I let EVERYBODY know what kind of chops I have. I am perfectly happy to be a pocket player and be the anchor for everybody else...remember, without an anchor, even the biggest ship will eventually be lost!! Keep on rockin........

Peace,

T

Peace,

T

Thanks so much! Yeah...it's crazy. I never would've thought when I was in my chops obsessed phase (and I'm still always tryign to better myself) taht people want simple players. In fact, I used to think simple meant inferior...I can't imagine how much everything will change to me in 10 years with heavy experience.

[addylewis]

...just I've nearly finished my degree and I'm trying to figure out what to do whan I've finished - I've been told by a few people I have potential, and had most people tell me they like what I play - but how do I go about getting some studio gigs?

I've got decent gear, so thats not a problem...I can't sight-read to save my life (although I can pick stuff up by ear quite easily - and I CAN sightread a little on piano then transfer it over...)

...just how do I get "in there" ?