Afton Company: Legit or scam?

[lahmikaze]

Hey everybody, I'm not sure if a similar post has already been made, if it has, I'm sorry. Anyways, my friend's band is a little bit more developed and further along than mine is. They have a demo floating around with professional recordings, have played several shows, and they are just overall very popular among my small town in Pennsylvania. They revealed that they had been using a company called Afton to book shows.

The band (Interrupt the Sound) says that they pay nothing for the show, and they actually earn money from the ticket sales. What I'm confused about, is how does Afton earn money? They're obviously a company that wants money, so how do they get it if the band gets the money.

I'm curious to see if other people have different opinions about them before my band makes a decision to use them. I've read some mixed reviews on the internet, some saying that they are in fact pay-to-play, and others claiming that they are in the business solely for the revival of music.

Please get back to me. And feel free to give general feed back about my band. Here's the link to our facebook. Gone Too Fast | Facebook
We do play quite a few covers. Probably about 20 altogether, and are currently focused on writing our own stuff. We have 5 solid songs 100% complete and are just waiting to record. Thanks a lot =D

-Lahmikaze

[runmikeyrun]

Afton is one of those companies that runs a scam, basically. Most times bands sell tickets for a show and they only keep $1 or $2 from each ticket sold. The rest of the money goes to Afton. The band's set time is usually determined by how many tickets they sell. So what happens is you can't tell any of your fans what time you're playing when you're selling them tickets because you won't know until you get to the venue and they count everyone's tickets. You have to tell people to show up when the doors open, and if you don't play til midnight people either get mad they have to wait all night or they just leave. Most times the other bands are all different styles of music, so fans of your cover band might have to sit through metal, punk, or funk bands that they're going to hate.

You're better off playing shows without ticket sales. It sucks when you sell 50 tickets at $10 a pop... at first you're like wow, we made $50! Then you have to hand over the other $450 to the promoter at the gig. That hurts. It also sucks when you can only sell 10 tickets and have to go on at 7pm.

Try to network with other more established bands on the net or at shows and ask to hop on their shows as an opener. You'll probably play for free for a while, but at least you can tell people what time you're playing and they won't have to front the money for a ticket. Once you get a bigger following you can start asking for better set times and some money. After a while you can book your own nights with clubs and arrange other bands to play with you. Its a great feeling to play a show with bands you know and you're able to hand them all a bunch of money at the end of the night.

[Bass Viking]

There have been several threads about Afton including this one where of its founders shows up and tries to defend his company: Has anyone heard of Afton?

From what I've learned, Afton is in it for themselves. A band is better off without them.

[baalroo]

not technically a "scam," but a total rip off, and if you play Afton shows after looking into what they do, then you too are an accomplice as far as I'm concerned.

[Depth_Charge]

Originally Posted by lahmikaze

I'm curious to see if other people have different opinions about them before my band makes a decision to use them. I've read some mixed reviews on the internet, some saying that they are in fact pay-to-play, and others claiming that they are in the business solely for the revival of music.

Think about it. If these guys were in the business solely for music revival, they wouldn't pull the kind of bands they do together at the local level they do to "revive music", nor would they charge bands such a high premium for the privelege of creating or performing that which they wish "to revive" for the good of whoever they claim will benefit from this "revival". Nor would who is "reviving" the music be dependent on volume of ticket sales etc. LOL

Flicking through my local Xpress there are tonnes of high profile bands of all genres coming through this week. And Perth is the most isolated captial city in the world! Even at the local scene theres hundreds of bands at least. Then theres all the music on the internet available at the press of a button. I ask you, when did music need "reviving"? Sure, the quality might...

No. IMNSHO, the only thing such companies want to revive is their own bank balances and unfortunaltey lots are relying on inexperienced people to achieve this goal.

[Waffles and Scotch]

Ugh. A band we've played with several times and respect the h*ll out of is playing a show for them in a couple weeks. If the testimonials from other bands are true, I feel bad for them.

[A-Step-Towards]

Scam , they take close to 90% or more of what you bring in, they force you to sell a certain amount of tickets and if you dont they push when you can go on stage back , then you make 200$ for them and get like 20$ they kept emailing my band and i told them basically to F O.

[Depth_Charge]

Yep, they're not doing much more a couple of good band leaders can't achieve amongst themselves. In fact, why a bandleader would want to pay for passing on all that networking and good-will building among venue management staff (and punters) is beyond my capability to understand.

[baalroo]

Originally Posted by Depth_Charge

Yep, they're not doing much more a couple of good band leaders can't achieve amongst themselves. In fact, why a bandleader would want to pay for passing on all that networking and good-will building among venue management staff (and punters) is beyond my capability to understand.

exactly. all those dudes did was get a website, act professional, and make phone calls and emails. Beyond that the bands are doing the rest of the work anyway. It's not rocket science, anyone can do it. if you're in a good band who thinks they can do the ticket sales and performance part of the equation successfully already then instead of dealing with these scammers just get a nice website, act professional when you talk to people, and make the phone calls and emails to the venues yourself. If a venue doesn't want to work with you, just call another one until you find someplace that will. The building you do the event in doesn't matter anyway, what matters is selling the tickets and making an event people want to go to. The "promoter" is the PERSON THAT PROMOTES the show, so these guys aren't really show promoters... the bands are. They don't own the buildings the shows are in either. They don't even perform for the audience. All they do is get everyone else to put a show on for them, and then walk away with the biggest cut.

[Waffles and Scotch]

Originally Posted by TF Ghost

Ugh. A band we've played with several times and respect the h*ll out of is playing a show for them in a couple weeks. If the testimonials from other bands are true, I feel bad for them.

Doh! I gave them contact info for a legit local promoter that gives a bigger cut and better exposure, and they seem to think I'm shady and working some sort of angle.

I just find it incomprehensible that a band that can get into new venues based on the quality of their music would link up with a company like this. Guess I have a lot to learn...about what people will do to get on stage, and about keeping ones mouth shut and not voicing an opinion nobody asked for...

My $.02 - if nobody listened to your music and you got into a new venue by agreeing to sell tickets for a company that will book ANY band, and your relationship is with this company and not the venue, you didn't get anywhere. All you did was make a zero return investment and perpetuate this unethical business practice.

[Bass Viking]

Originally Posted by runmikeyrun

Afton is one of those companies that runs a scam, basically. Most times bands sell tickets for a show and they only keep $1 or $2 from each ticket sold. The rest of the money goes to Afton. The band's set time is usually determined by how many tickets they sell. So what happens is you can't tell any of your fans what time you're playing when you're selling them tickets because you won't know until you get to the venue and they count everyone's tickets. You have to tell people to show up when the doors open, and if you don't play til midnight people either get mad they have to wait all night or they just leave. Most times the other bands are all different styles of music, so fans of your cover band might have to sit through metal, punk, or funk bands that they're going to hate.

You're better off playing shows without ticket sales. It sucks when you sell 50 tickets at $10 a pop... at first you're like wow, we made $50! Then you have to hand over the other $450 to the promoter at the gig. That hurts. It also sucks when you can only sell 10 tickets and have to go on at 7pm.

+1. I'd also like to add: How many people want to commit to buying a ticket to see a bar band?

[Waffles and Scotch]

Originally Posted by Bass Viking

+1. I'd also like to add: How many people want to commit to buying a ticket to see a bar band?

We're an original rock band and have no problem selling tickets...occasionally. I try to book 95% of our shows at bars/clubs with no ticket sales. But when we want to open for a national act at a big venue, I see no problem with a band that's just starting out selling tickets for a $2 cut. BUT - I expect there to be an actual promoter. I expect to make new contacts. I expect a time slot that's predetermined and I expect to be playing with bands that are a good fit for us and are of the same caliber. Oh, and I also expect the person offerring the show to actually listen to and like our music.

[lahmikaze]

We just booked a show with them for the 24th of September. One band backed out so we got to replace them. It was last minute, but our ticket quota is a lot smaller, and we have a lot more freedoms because of the short notice. Honestly, I don't see how they're a scam or a rip off. They've literally told us everything about what's going to happen. Everything from directions to the show, the order/stage time of the acts, and the difference between door/online/hard ticket sales. I don't know if we just got lucky and they let us know everything and they didn't let you guys know anything, but we seem to be satisfied.

The pay even isn't that bad. For a group of 17 year olds going into a bar and playing for a half an hour, roughly $30 (depending on how many ticks we sell) isn't bad at all. And I really don't know how it could be any more fair. (The more tickets you sell, the more money you make) This is everything we wanted in a first show. I'll give an update to let y'all know what happened after the show.

Thanks a lot for the advice, too!!

[baalroo]

Originally Posted by lahmikaze

We just booked a show with them for the 24th of September. One band backed out so we got to replace them. It was last minute, but our ticket quota is a lot smaller, and we have a lot more freedoms because of the short notice. Honestly, I don't see how they're a scam or a rip off. They've literally told us everything about what's going to happen. Everything from directions to the show, the order/stage time of the acts, and the difference between door/online/hard ticket sales. I don't know if we just got lucky and they let us know everything and they didn't let you guys know anything, but we seem to be satisfied.

The pay even isn't that bad. For a group of 17 year olds going into a bar and playing for a half an hour, roughly $30 (depending on how many ticks we sell) isn't bad at all. And I really don't know how it could be any more fair. (The more tickets you sell, the more money you make) This is everything we wanted in a first show. I'll give an update to let y'all know what happened after the show.

Thanks a lot for the advice, too!!

wow, what a bummer. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

If you read all of the info posted here about Afton and still make this post, I'm not surprised you're playing a show for them. You're exactly the sort of young band with stars in their eyes and no gig experience that scam artists like Afton go after. I guess you'll just be able to chalk the waste of time, money and resources up to a learning experience... and if you don't, well, I guess it won't matter because working with people like Afton is a good indication that you'll be unlikely to get very far anyhow.

How overpriced are the tickets you're about to sell your parents?

Sorry to hear about your decision, but good luck.

[Bass Viking]

Originally Posted by lahmikaze

We just booked a show with them for the 24th of September. One band backed out so we got to replace them. It was last minute, but our ticket quota is a lot smaller, and we have a lot more freedoms because of the short notice. Honestly, I don't see how they're a scam or a rip off. They've literally told us everything about what's going to happen. Everything from directions to the show, the order/stage time of the acts, and the difference between door/online/hard ticket sales. I don't know if we just got lucky and they let us know everything and they didn't let you guys know anything, but we seem to be satisfied.

The pay even isn't that bad. For a group of 17 year olds going into a bar and playing for a half an hour, roughly $30 (depending on how many ticks we sell) isn't bad at all. And I really don't know how it could be any more fair. (The more tickets you sell, the more money you make) This is everything we wanted in a first show. I'll give an update to let y'all know what happened after the show.

Thanks a lot for the advice, too!!

Sigh... Some people have to learn the hard way. What Afton is doing is not illegal, but it's still a ripoff. They don't exist to help musicians.

Wait... you're making 30 bucks?!!! Never mind, forget what I said.

[Bass Viking]

I googled Afton. There is also a organization unrelated to them called Afton Entertainment Group LLC. Here is what they say on their website:

And, as a note of importance, I AM NOT affiliated with the Afton Entertainment in the United States that is receiving bad reviews for "pay for play" showcases. There is no connection whatsoever. We are a management firm, and do not have "showcases" or other types of promotional events for artists that require them to pay to perform. RIDICULOUS!

[lahmikaze]

I really don't know why everyone hates Afton... Yes, you have to sell a certain amount of tickets, but that wasn't a problem for us. We had to sell 15 and we ended up selling close to 40. (It was for our first gig) We ended up making close to $100 from the whole show, mostly from tips. Most importantly, we got to play in front of strangers who actually complimented us on our performance, which definitely gave me a great feeling.

We definitely won't be booking with them again, because we could earn more money elsewhere, but we can't thank them enough for giving us or first taste of fame, lol. I would highly suggest any new band use them for their first or second show, then just politely refuse to do business with them again. My $.02 =D

[nickrs540]

My band has a show booked with afton on friday oct 21st at a pretty good venue. As i understand it, there is no pay to play scam going on. My guitarist who talked with afton says that if we don't bring anyone then we won't get payed much or anything at all. It's all about who we can bring which i think is understandable. I don't really think a company can promote a band no one has heard of and make a ton of people go see them. Its just all about our fans and hopefully the fans that the others bands bring as well.

As pay goes i know its a pay scale. Something like 10 fans is $1 a person, $25 is $3, and so on. I'm not really keen on it, but I don't think anything sinister is going on.


The only problem i have with them is supposedly they give set times according to how many tickets your going to sell or something like that. That makes it fairly difficult to bring people who don't want to sit through a bunch of other bands whose genres arent the same as ours.

[armywalaby]

Originally Posted by lahmikaze

I really don't know why everyone hates Afton... Yes, you have to sell a certain amount of tickets, but that wasn't a problem for us. We had to sell 15 and we ended up selling close to 40. (It was for our first gig) We ended up making close to $100 from the whole show, mostly from tips. Most importantly, we got to play in front of strangers who actually complimented us on our performance, which definitely gave me a great feeling.

We definitely won't be booking with them again, because we could earn more money elsewhere, but we can't thank them enough for giving us or first taste of fame, lol. I would highly suggest any new band use them for their first or second show, then just politely refuse to do business with them again. My $.02 =D

[baalroo]

Originally Posted by armywalaby

I know, sometimes there's just nothing you can do. It's frustrating, but like I said before, you just can't make a horse drink.