Amount of riffs left to be written?

[Guz2]

As I see it, every riff was just waiting to be written. Just think how many riffs have been written over the years...Billions. How many times can you rearrange 8 notes? I'm actually getting quite worried that the world is running out of riffs...Anyone else feel like this or am I just a nutter?

[RexNFX79]

I think that everybody sort of borrows from everybody else. If you're not directly ripping someone off, I don't see the problem. It's hard to do anything anymore that is truly original. Chances are someone, whether you know it or not, has done something similar IMO.

[amosjones]

There is more to a song than just a riff.

[G00D+~VIBES]

If you think your glass is half-empty, you're right. If you think your glass is half-full, your right.

[natw42]

Well, there's the sharp/flats out there, bringing the note count up to 12. And then we can get into quarter steps and other micro-tonal steps that open up all sorts of possibilities.

Then there's timing differences. A riff played in straight eighths is going to be different than the some thing swung. Or using different note durations. Or different time signatures.

Then there are tones/ambiance/approaches creating wholly different feels and moods to songs.

Basically, no. those 12 notes (and more) are the alphabet. Music is the language. Just because there are 26 letters in the English alphabet doesn't mean we're going to run out of books to write.

Although, in both instances (literature and music) there is plagiarism, whether intentional or not.

[Phalex]

Originally Posted by Guz2

As I see it, every riff was just waiting to be written. Just think how many riffs have been written over the years...Billions. How many times can you rearrange 8 notes? I'm actually getting quite worried that the world is running out of riffs...Anyone else feel like this or am I just a nutter?

Nutter.

[Guz2]

Originally Posted by G00D+~VIBES

If you think your glass is half-empty, you're right. If you think your glass is half-full, your right.

I think my glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

[Guz2]

Originally Posted by natw42

Well, there's the sharp/flats out there, bringing the note count up to 12. And then we can get into quarter steps and other micro-tonal steps that open up all sorts of possibilities.

Then there's timing differences. A riff played in straight eighths is going to be different than the some thing swung. Or using different note durations. Or different time signatures.

Then there are tones/ambiance/approaches creating wholly different feels and moods to songs.

Basically, no. those 12 notes (and more) are the alphabet. Music is the language. Just because there are 26 letters in the English alphabet doesn't mean we're going to run out of books to write.

Although, in both instances (literature and music) there is plagiarism, whether intentional or not.

You're abolutely right...Thank you

[standupright]

Originally Posted by RexNFX79

I think that everybody sort of borrows from everybody else. If you're not directly ripping someone off, I don't see the problem. It's hard to do anything anymore that is truly original. Chances are someone, whether you know it or not, has done something similar IMO.

i can't tell you how many times this has happened with basslines i've written. i'll get to rehearsal and introduce what i think to be a new orginal bassline for a possible new tune to work on. and then one of the other musicians will say....."that sounds kinda like (insert tune by band i've never heard)". your kidding me right? "nope (grabs tune off cd or ipod or youtube etc)." crap. time to rearrange it.

[plankspanker13]

Copping a previously used bassline is not necessarily a bad thing, provided there is enough detail to make the song unique. Reference "Ghostbusters" vs "I Want A New Drug."

natw42, you said it all.

[natw42]

Originally Posted by Guz2

You're abolutely right...Thank you

You're welcome...can't take credit for the idea tho. The whole 'music is language' thing has been touted by many before me.

I think the biggest challenge we face as musicians when we write is to challenge ourselves to express new ideas and avoid repeating what others have said through their music.

And also to avoid repeating ourselves too

[adivin]

Technically is there a finite number of songs that can be written?

[Chasarms]

Originally Posted by adivin

Technically is there a finite number of songs that can be written?

How ya figger dat?

[MonetBass]

I had a discussion on this very topic with a guy when I was in school. To expound on what natw42 stated, let's take this mathematically. Just using 12 notes taken 5 at a time (the average lick or melody, let's say), we have 248,832 possible permutations. Then you add in durations -- let's stick with half, quarter, and eighth notes -- you get 36 possible notes taken 5 at a time giving 60,466,176 possible permutations. Then you add in the possible chord progressions underneath that -- well, you get the idea.

Granted, most popular music will have similar chord progressions, but that's not limiting in and of itself. And in reality, of all of the millions of licks ever written, how many have actually reached our ears? I don't believe 'everything has been written', and I'm pretty sure most songwriters and composers share that sentiment. Otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

[uethanian]

Originally Posted by MonetBass

I had a discussion on this very topic with a guy when I was in school. To expound on what natw42 stated, let's take this mathematically. Just using 12 notes taken 5 at a time (the average lick or melody, let's say), we have 248,832 possible permutations. Then you add in durations -- let's stick with half, quarter, and eighth notes -- you get 36 possible notes taken 5 at a time giving 60,466,176 possible permutations. Then you add in the possible chord progressions underneath that -- well, you get the idea.

i've heard this from multiple people, but it doesn't mean much to me. just because you can make all these permutations doesn't mean that you'd want to musically. that's really a serialist-type idea, and serialism wasn't exactly the most successful movement.

i'm all for microtones, and i don't just mean 'quartertones.' for instance, if you have two different qualities of a major or minor third, you add a hell of a lot of nuance to your harmonic vocabulary.

it should also be recognized that there's been huge developments on the timbral side of things, with electric instruments, studio effects...

so i think it's easy to inadvertently sound like someone else, but i also think there's enough resources at person's disposal to sound original, providing they have the creativity

[Essen]

Originally Posted by Guz2

As I see it, every riff was just waiting to be written. Just think how many riffs have been written over the years...Billions. How many times can you rearrange 8 notes? I'm actually getting quite worried that the world is running out of riffs...Anyone else feel like this or am I just a nutter?

That's why I generally stay away from 4/4 when making riffs, I can do standard time sigs for anything else, but my riffs are generally weird. I find it hard to make decent riffs, that sound unique, in 4/4.

[RexNFX79]

Originally Posted by standupright

i can't tell you how many times this has happened with basslines i've written. i'll get to rehearsal and introduce what i think to be a new orginal bassline for a possible new tune to work on. and then one of the other musicians will say....."that sounds kinda like (insert tune by band i've never heard)". your kidding me right? "nope (grabs tune off cd or ipod or youtube etc)." crap. time to rearrange it.

Same here but that is kind of my point. It's difficult to write something that is totally unlike anything. I listen to recorded, widely released music and hear similarities. I think it's cool to take influences and use them as long as you're not ripping someone off. How many songs are written with the same chord progressions? The key is to do it in your own way.

[PZapdos]

buy a Warr bass if your that worried