Anyone know anything clever about punk?

[Llusk]

I'm about to do a rather large written assignment about punk as a sub-cultur and punk as mainstream, and I've been asked to analyze a few numbers. That shouldn't be too tough, but I'd like to hear if anyone know any theory about punk music? (fx. The Clash, Sex Pistols as the subculture, and (sadly) Green day as the mainstream punk).


- Cheers Llusk

[Deluge Of Sound]

I think if you're looking for theory in punk music, you're missing the point.

[sedan_dad]

The idea behind punk was it allowed bands and musicians who weren't polished acts ,in the vein of popular music of the day, to have a vehical to express them
selfs.
Go back to 1975-1979 and what did you have? Corporate rock.
The Stones, Yes, Led Zepplin etc, getting bigger and more polished every day. Punk was the label put on a new style of music that was anything but polished. Punk was raw, dirty,offensive and in your face. Everything rock wasn't anymore. I lived through it. I was in a punk band in 1976.
Punk was a way of giving everything established and accepted ,the bird.

[bongomania]

+1 Also note that the Clash very quickly went from "subculture" to "mainstream" and stayed mainstream until the band broke up, and the Sex Pistols became fairly mainstream after they broke up.

If you want subculture, you'll have to dig a bit deeper.

[wafu_vasco]

There was a famous article in a magazine at the time with a drawing of three chords, that went something like "Step One - Learn these 3 chords, Step Two - Form a punk band, Step Three - Become famous" - I forget the magazine (must of been real famous...) but the point was that in the 70s, punk was a medium for angry youths with little/no talent to air their political views. At least, that's the Sex Pistols. Bands like The Clash, the Ramones and the Dead Kennedys had a lot more to them, and whilst it was considered an 'indulgence' to carry out guitar solos of any sort (maybe an excuse by the Pistols because they could barely play?) there were certainly enough original punk bass players who were very good at what they did. This is carried on today - check out guys like Matt Freeman from Rancid. I guess the interesting thing is that punk which stuck to its roots like the Sex pistols is very, very easy to play, and has a pretense of having something deep and meaningful to say. The punk which 'sold out' and went commercial and mainstream is actually where the talent is - these guys don't make the pretense of having something political to say, they just write and perfrom good music.

[Satchafunkilus]

Punk is a vehicle to express your views, the simplicity of the music allows the message to be clearer... And actually, the Sex Pistols could play- It was Sid Vicious that couldn't, but he had the right image so they kept him.

[wafu_vasco]

Originally Posted by Satchafunkilus

And actually, the Sex Pistols could play- It was Sid Vicious that couldn't, but he had the right image so they kept him.

Yeah, fair enough - I didn't phrase that very well - the Pistols could play their instruments, but I guess I'm trying to say that there were never in the same league as other punk bands of the same era, let alone bands in different genres. I think punk gets a bad rep for lack of talent, and the Sex Pistols are the main culprits for reputation.

[totalimmortal08]

i really think your topic is kind of broad. can you please be a little more specific? i'd be glad to help you out on.

[Trell]

Originally Posted by sedan_dad

The idea behind punk was it allowed bands and musicians who weren't polished acts ,in the vein of popular music of the day, to have a vehical to express them
selfs.
Go back to 1975-1979 and what did you have? Corporate rock.
The Stones, Yes, Led Zepplin etc, getting bigger and more polished every day. Punk was the label put on a new style of music that was anything but polished. Punk was raw, dirty,offensive and in your face. Everything rock wasn't anymore. I lived through it. I was in a punk band in 1976.
Punk was a way of giving everything established and accepted ,the bird.

+1 on this. I wrote a paper on punk music for a class last year (I love pop culture classes) and this was basically the gist of it. Punk was a reaction to how big and grandiose rock music had become by the end of the 70s. The political element that usually comes with it was a reaction against the conservative movements that basically simultaneously happened with Reagan and Thatcher in the US and the UK respectively.

[Infernal Affair]

Originally Posted by wafu_vasco

Yeah, fair enough - I didn't phrase that very well - the Pistols could play their instruments, but I guess I'm trying to say that there were never in the same league as other punk bands of the same era, let alone bands in different genres. I think punk gets a bad rep for lack of talent, and the Sex Pistols are the main culprits for reputation.

I wouldn't call them the main culprits. I'd say the Ramones inspired more kids to pick up instruments because of the same reason. They were even an influence on the Pistols and the Clash, though the latter proved to be a lot more proficient with their instruments.

[AlembicPlayer]

I dig that movie "decline of western civilization" part one...about the scene in LA in the early 80's

The Germs, X, FEAR....some really cool stuff in that movie.

[Benjamin Strange]

There is nothing clever about punk. That's the point.

[jimb213]

Our Band Could Be Your Life

that's an interesting book that basically tells the history of a bunch of indie/underground punk and hardcore bands from the 80's. The chapter on Black Flag alone should give you some great info about the American punk/hardcore scene, the DIY ethic involved, and the anti-establishment feelings of the scene. An amazon search for that book pulled up lots more books on the same topic; I'm sure there's tons of info out there at this point.

[MatticusMania]

The Germs! Hell Yeah! Nothing is more punk than getting up on stage while admittingly not knowing how to play your instruments and still becoming famous...

[JoeVictim]

Originally Posted by wafu_vasco

There was a famous article in a magazine at the time with a drawing of three chords, that went something like "Step One - Learn these 3 chords, Step Two - Form a punk band, Step Three - Become famous" - I forget the magazine (must of been real famous...) but the point was that in the 70s, punk was a medium for angry youths with little/no talent to air their political views. At least, that's the Sex Pistols. Bands like The Clash, the Ramones and the Dead Kennedys had a lot more to them, and whilst it was considered an 'indulgence' to carry out guitar solos of any sort (maybe an excuse by the Pistols because they could barely play?) there were certainly enough original punk bass players who were very good at what they did. This is carried on today - check out guys like Matt Freeman from Rancid. I guess the interesting thing is that punk which stuck to its roots like the Sex pistols is very, very easy to play, and has a pretense of having something deep and meaningful to say. The punk which 'sold out' and went commercial and mainstream is actually where the talent is - these guys don't make the pretense of having something political to say, they just write and perfrom good music.

Then you have bands like Propagandi that shows you can have tremendous talent, a political message, and not sell out. Ew, they newest album is hard to play.

[AlphaMale]

Read up on Crust Punk, Hardcore punk, Anarcho Punk, and D-beat.

Thats the interesting stuff.

"Crust punks are associated with road protests, squatters, street entertainers, . The broader "crusty" subculture has been linked to New Age travellers."

A lot of homeless, freegan, vegan, or activist crusties. No joke. There's a whole culture man.

The class and the sex pistols aren't even beginning to take the first step of scratching the surface on the basics of punk.

Theres so much more than the early stuff.


- In Grind we crust.

[rakirksey]

Here is another great movie.

I would agree in general that punk was all about the anti-establishment.

[Godbody]

Frankly, the Wikipedia article on punk does a good job of explaining its common themes. You can always check out the sources listed at the bottom for more flavor.

[Crass!]

I'm a bit biased but I think Crass was one of the punk groups that truly defined the genre. They existed to counteract the political, social & economic cultures of the day in the UK and practiced what they preached.

example songs:
You Can Be Who?
Do They Owe Us A Living?
Fight War, Not Wars
Systematic Death

[steamthief]

I was watching an episode of The Seven Ages of Rock last weekend, and Glen Matlock says he lifted the main riff of Pretty Vacant from an Abba song. I found that tidbit rather amusing!

Banned from the Roxy, so what?