Bass guitar on Jazz gigs

[dblbass]

HI. I was just wondering if all of you get the same respose that i do if you try to play a jazz gig on electric. I'm at college now and i play both electric and upright bass. everytime i bring my bass guitar to a rehersal or to class or a gig people (fellow students and teachers) are always like..."oh...did you bring your upright?". I find that the jazzers i know are very closed minded to electric bass. The funny thing though is that every keyboard player at my school uses the Fender rhodes setting and i just feel like spiting their same "wheres the real thing" remark back at them. Anyway what happens to you guys, what do you think of it and what do you do about it?

[Snarf]

I just don't bring an electric to a jazz gig. It's really not appropriate for straightahead. Would a violinist for an orchestra bring a NS Design?

[HomeBrewTJ]

Originally Posted by dblbass

The funny thing though is that every keyboard player at my school uses the Fender rhodes setting and i just feel like spiting their same "wheres the real thing" remark back at them.

do it.

[Tbirdbassist]

Last time I checked, ton's of Jazz guys play electric as well. Guess it depends on the style of Jazz, also.

[Freddels]

I play both and sometimes I just don't feel like carrying or playing my URB. Sometimes it's just fun to play EB. Tell all the alto players to bring a bari b/c it just sounds better to you.

I feel the same way about the piano, I really don't like the rhodes sound. Bring the damn acoustic piano! I don't want to see a solid body guitar either.

I used to show up for jams with my URB and the keyboard player has his amp cranked and he asks me if I can turn up b/c he can't really hear me. So I reach down and make like I'm turning the adjuster a bit.

You have to realize that you won't get some gigs without the URB. But if that's what they specifically requested then that's what I'll bring but special requests cost $.

[dblbass]

Originally Posted by Freddels

You have to realize that you won't get some gigs without the URB. But if that's what they specifically requested then that's what I'll bring but special requests cost $.

No doubt. Its just frustrating though. I always bring my upright to gigs but i recently broke my finger on my fretting hand and i cant play upright but i can kinda get around on electric. the guy who leads my quartet (the one BLAAASTING the rhodes at every gig) would rather bring in a substitute then have me play electric and its not because he's lookin out for me and my finger its cause hes closed minded. I understand that its not going to work on alot of tunes, so i play upright on those. But when we're doin a funk peice he still gets all high and mighty about it not being good enough. Well enough ranting for one morning.

[Snarf]

I don't see why you need to get all offended. Your job is to play upright in that band. If you can't do the job, why shouldn't the keys player get a sub?

[SteveC]

I play electric fretted for all my jazz gigs. Around here it's fine. I do play upright on rare occasions and for "pit" gigs.

[KJung]

Things go through stages. In the 80's, even a lot of straight ahead players were looking to 'update' their sound with EB to try to stay 'relevant'. However, now there are so few jazz gigs anywhere any more, and they pay so poorly, that it's kind of a moot point. Yes, if you want to play a top straight ahead gig in New York, a DB is a must.

Everywhere else, most 'jazz gigs' are available to EB players (I do them all the time), and the few that are 'DB required' typically pay about $50

The bigger question is does it make sense to be in a college jazz program in the year 2007

[jady]

Most folks like the URB cuz it looks cool. They dont care about the sound so much. Everytime I hear anything about the URB it's it looks so cool.

What makes me mad is that I have thousands invested in my EB gear but my upright is a piece of crap Chinese model that doesn't play or sound half as good.

[BassChuck]

Originally Posted by KJung

The bigger question is does it make sense to be in a college jazz program in the year 2007

Amen to that. You'd think that a Jazz (at one time the most progressive kind of music) program in a college (at one the most progressive thinking arena) would be open to a lot of things. If they are so conservative in their thinking that they can't see their way to having a modern instrument play (hopefully) modern music, I'd have to question whether they are preparing your future or justifying their past.

[ding_man]

If your teacher says something then you might want to listen. You can tell students to shove it though and then play awesome so they feel like assholes.

[Chad.mundt]

There is truth in that the person who leads the band has every right to hire a sub. He didn't hire a bassist, he hired a double bassist.

I play electric on most gigs (probably due to my upright playing not being at the same level as my electric), and I personally think that the electric is a much better sounding solo instrument. It is harder to swing on the EB, but it most definitely can be done. You do have to think about what many to most jazz gigs are about: ambience. The upright looks the part.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by Chad.mundt

...I personally think that the electric is a much better sounding solo instrument. It is harder to swing on the EB, but it most definitely can be done. You do have to think about what many to most jazz gigs are about: ambience. The upright looks the part.

I agree. I've been told more than once that I "swing hard" when playing an EB on a jazz gig. I've also received compliments when using an upright and my playing has been less than good. Just goes to show how many people - even those that should know better - listen with something other than their ears.

[bobbykokinos]

Originally Posted by dblbass

Anyway what happens to you guys, what do you think of it and what do you do about it?

This has happened to me many times but I always bring my electric and upright with me. What do I do about it? Nothing. Unless its my group, I play what the director wants me to play. Thats what I get paid for. Are there closed minded people when they see electric? Yes.

The fact of the matter, if you are a jazz musician and you are playing big band or fake book stuff, the majority of your playing will be on upright. I'll be first to say I'm better at electric than I am on upright. But 80% of my gigs are on upright because thats what is needed for the music or thats what the director wants. The only time I'll bring ONLY my electric is if I'm playing at a place where space is tight and having an upright would be really inconvenient. Luckly, the directors I play with are understanding of that.

Some of it is just aesthetics. I think this is dumb, but a lot of directors just want to SEE and upright on stage. Many of them couldnt even tell the difference between a magnetic pickup on an upright (which I think just sounds like a fretless electric) or an upright on a Mic. Its the "ohh ahh" factor and it seems more authentic. I do believe its a stupid idea but thats just the way it goes sometimes.

Welcome to the world of doubling. Just something you have to deal with and your experience is the first of thousands of times you'll hear it. If you are stuck on ONLY playing electric and have no desire to play upright, then put yourself in a band or situation where only electric is acceptable. If you are hired or under a director, you have to play what they want you to play.

[Aaron Saunders]

Snarf is right. It's not appropriate.

I play both and am also at a music college. I don't bring my electric because if I were a sax player or guitar player and my bassist played both, I'd want him to use the upright. Electric in jazz can work, but it's f'ing lame and a total drag for everyone else 90% of the time.

[Marcus Willett]

Originally Posted by dblbass

I find that the jazzers i know are very closed minded to electric bass.

They are, for the most part. I find it ironic that the God of jazz that people want to emulate and play the compositions of were quite often very open minded to new ideas and not being tied to preconceived ideas.

Originally Posted by dblbass

The funny thing though is that every keyboard player at my school uses the Fender rhodes setting and i just feel like spiting their same "wheres the real thing" remark back at them.

It's called a double-standard and it's lamer than any instance of electric bass being used in a jazz setting.

Originally Posted by Aaron Saunders

Electric in jazz can work, but it's f'ing lame and a total drag for everyone else 90% of the time.

I'd say that player does or does not make it lamer than any choice of axe. What I have found is that 90% of the time, the good players want a bass player to have a good feel, good time and know how to make music. I've done tons of jazz gigs with some heavies out there and I've found the desire for those elements to far outweigh the lust for upright.

I've seen many more instances of keyboard players getting pissed at upright players that drag or can't play in tune tune (or both) far more than the upright issue.

"You'll get more gigs playing upright". True, to an extent in the jazz world and a few others.

But consider that:

1) You'll get way more work than you'll ever get playing any kinda bass if you can sing.

2) If you're looking to make money playing jazz, you're barking up the wrong tree anyway. That's not a very compelling reason to spend the amount of time needed to develop decent upright chops.

So, what's the motivation? If you love playing upright bass, that's great. Play it with passion and play it well and I will respect the Hell out of you for doing so. But the work angle does not jibe with my experience and it doesn't stand up to scrutiny, and this is from some who makes a living playing bass and has been for 20 years.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by bobbykokinos

Some of it is just aesthetics. I think this is dumb, but a lot of directors just want to SEE and upright on stage. Many of them couldnt even tell the difference between a magnetic pickup on an upright (which I think just sounds like a fretless electric) or an upright on a Mic. Its the "ohh ahh" factor and it seems more authentic. I do believe its a stupid idea but thats just the way it goes sometimes.

Well said.

[Aaron Saunders]

So, the only way an electric bass player can get a jazz gig from an upright player is if the DB guy drags, and can't play in tune? Yeah, sounds about right. I'm just saying that if it comes down to DB or BG for a jazz gig, I'm surprised it's even a question.

PS: Believe me...I know nobody goes into jazz for the money

[Marcus Willett]

Originally Posted by Aaron Saunders

So, the only way an electric bass player can get a jazz gig from an upright player is if the DB guy drags, and can't play in tune?

I think perhaps you missed the point. Playing in time with a good feel and in tune trumps the "upright factor" when getting gigs, IME. In fact, I have a jazz gig tonight and I'm splitting it with another player that does play upright, yet the different keyboardists tell me they enjoy the gig more when I'm there. Doesn't mean I'm great or anything, just to illustrate that the choice of axe doesn't carry nearly as much weight as what you bring to the table musically.

Originally Posted by Aaron Saunders

Believe me...I know nobody goes into jazz for the money

So sad, so true.

[Sneckumhaw]

Originally Posted by Aaron Saunders

Electric in jazz can work, but it's f'ing lame and a total drag for everyone else 90% of the time.

Ornette Coleman said earlier this year that he likes the sound and sustain of an electric bass better than a double bass and prefers his bassists to use an electric. It reminded me how rare it is that a jazz musician will say something like that and made me love Ornette even more than before.