Bass and music arer not taken seriously anymore!!!

Stride000 · #1 09-29-2007, 03:33 PM

Just want to let off some steam here.

A couple of very frustrating events have happened in the music business recently that adds a bit too much to the already difficult situation of being a struggling musician.

Was it not enough that electronic music replaced real bass by synth bass - ok we came to accept it, it's part of a new genre of music and there are still very interesting gigs that needs real bass - but now, otther musicians are taking the bassist's role.

I know it's a very small market where I live and everybody wants to hire their friends and protect their jobs but !!!

I recently learned that the busiest bass player in town asked a guitar player friend of his to sub him on a very high profile gig. Then today i read in the paper that the bass player for another high profile artist is a guy that usually is a sax player!!!

I mean come on!!!!!!! How many struggling, very talented bass players are out there just dying for a break. This is plain disrespectful for bass as a profession, and to other bassists.

Seems like corporate mentality of numbers, gain and profit has started to rotten our beloved field of expertise. Everybody knows it already got the record labels but the freelance musicians biz??? Call me naive but I was still under the impression that talent and personality were still the main criterias.

Shame on me, but mostly shame on the guys who are being selfish unconsiderate people.

I will still believe in the fact that the greatest musicians are talented, kind and truly great persons. But I'll be forever sour from the biz from now on.

tplyons · #2 09-29-2007, 07:45 PM

It's just like web design and production. Everyone's an expert these days. Didn't you know that?

I play bass because I love to play bass, not to make a career out of it. If I can, great, but I don't expect to.

superbassman2000 · #3 09-29-2007, 08:09 PM

whats the problem with a sax player playing the bass? If the band doesn't know a better bass player than a guy who happens to like sax a little better then I fail to see a problem. If you were looking for a guitar player for your band, would you take the player that was great but also played drums, or would you settle for the mediocre player simply because he only played guitar and nothing else?

JonathanD · #4 09-30-2007, 02:26 AM

I am a better sax player than a bass player.... I play bass more often and like it better.
I can appear to be both.
Jonathan

TeeMartin · #5 09-30-2007, 02:35 AM

I think you need to realize that musicians can play more than one instrument. Unless you're trying to say that bassists aren't musicians or something.

Diggler · #6 09-30-2007, 07:19 AM

What do you propose? A bassists' union? Background checks to make sure someone's reeeeaaallly a bass player?

Face it, for a lot of music (mostly popular stuff) most good musicians can be functionally proficient on a bass in a very short amount of time.

One Bad Monkey · #7 09-30-2007, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stride000

I recently learned that the busiest bass player in town asked a guitar player friend of his to sub him on a very high profile gig. Then today i read in the paper that the bass player for another high profile artist is a guy that usually is a sax player!!!

I mean come on!!!!!!! How many struggling, very talented bass players are out there just dying for a break. This is plain disrespectful for bass as a profession, and to other bassists.

Sorry, but I completely disagree. I sub out a guy that's main instrument is voice, but he's a solid player. The reason I sub stuff out to him? I know him, I know what he's capable of doing, I know what his personality is.

You gotta remember, in this situation, your name is only as good as the person you have fill your shoes. I will not just give some random bass player that I know nothing about a chance, because if they do horribly, it's MY butt on the line. It took me three years of networking and subbing for other people to finally get where I am now and I know how quickly it can all go away with the wrong sub.

Fassa Albrecht · #8 09-30-2007, 07:44 AM

I will confess it is people like me who probably contribute to this- I'm also learning keyboards, and I often make use of the keyboard's 4-track recorder to make basslines as backing for the song I'm playing.

The major difference between me and another person on keys though is that I have the bass knowledge to rely on when programming basslines. I would also never make a complete change from bass to keys.

Diggler · #9 09-30-2007, 08:16 AM

A bass is just a frickin' instrument to pump out low notes. It doesn't have a monopoly on it.

**Marcus Willett** · #10 09-30-2007, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diggler

Face it, for a lot of music (mostly popular stuff) most good musicians can be functionally proficient on a bass in a very short amount of time.

Sad but true. For 90% of the gigs out there, the bass chair is usually the easiest one to fill. Most music is just not very demanding of that role. It's also the easiest instrument to "get away with" being ignorant on...and I used "get away with" deliberately.

Add to this the fact that to almost all people and most musicians (even good ones a lot of times) the difference between a bassist who is decent and competent and one who really has a deep understanding of music, how his instrument works in that role, great chops, time tone, feel and the maturity to know what to play and what not to play...the difference between those two is usually lost on people...they just don't hear it. The former player sounds "just fine".

There's a good reason why often guys who have been playing a long time start getting more into jazz as years go by. It's when you get into the realm of improvisational music that you really get to experience what a player has got going on.

Matt Till · #11 09-30-2007, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superbassman2000

whats the problem with a sax player playing the bass? If the band doesn't know a better bass player than a guy who happens to like sax a little better then I fail to see a problem. If you were looking for a guitar player for your band, would you take the player that was great but also played drums, or would you settle for the mediocre player simply because he only played guitar and nothing else?

Agreed, the sax player was probably a friend, and if he can swing it on the bass... sweet. It's probably not a band that demands a devoted bassist. Sure YOU would probably be a better bassist, but who cares. I see no great signs of disrespect, don't take yourself TOO seriously.

**Pacman** · #12 09-30-2007, 01:29 PM

The question is, why didn't these guys hire you? Do you market yourself? If you do get sub gigs, do you do exactly what the bandleader wants? Are you agreeable, on time, professional and a 'good hang'? Do you force your musical tastes on the situation? Do you read music "kinda"? Do you insist on "your sound"? Do you take direction well? Do you know more than those fools?

Lots of reasons not to get a gig....being an in-demand player means a heck of a lot more than just being a better player...

fenderhutz · #13 09-30-2007, 01:45 PM

So are you saying if someone is a painter that can't be a photographer as well?

My old drummer could outplay everyone in the band on our own instruments because he was versatile and would get pro gigs because of it.

Stride000 · #14 10-01-2007, 01:16 PM

Pacman - I know what you're saying and I agree. But this is not about me not being able to cut the gig. It's the fact that there are a lot of very talented bass players out there, who possesses all the qualities you mentioned who are struggling to make a name for themselves. And at the same time, some established musicians favor their non-bass player friends over them.

I don't see any problems in being a multi-instrumentalist, in fact, it helps a great deal to one's musicality. I don't have a problem either in seeing someone filling in for another musician on a show where that other musicians needs to jump on percs for exemple. I don't have a problem either with a musician doing all the instrument for his studio project etc...

I also agree that between a lousy sub and a guitar player friend of yours, the choice is easy. But it's not that hard to find or have someone you trust recommend a pro bass player. There is no excuse other than the fact that people are protecting their jobs between them.

Now, again, if you want to hire only your bass player friend for every gig, i don't have a problem with that. But don't take a job out of a bass player's hand to give it to a sax or giutar player.

**Pacman** · #15 10-01-2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stride000

But don't take a job out of a bass player's hand to give it to a sax or giutar player.

Seems to me, if the guitar player or sax player can cut the gig on bass, that makes him a bass player, too.

The Golden Boy · #16 10-01-2007, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stride000

people are protecting their jobs between them.

Their.

Every year I put a project together for a one-off show. I go with people I know. I don't have any obligation to anyone to hire anybody I don't know or anyone I don't wish to hire. Least of all someone I don't know, complaining that they're on the outs and want to get "in."

You want to get "in?" You've got to get a reputation. You want a rep? Start playing. With everyone, for everything. Get to know people. Go to shows. Put something together.

Stride000 · #17 10-01-2007, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

Seems to me, if the guitar player or sax player can cut the gig on bass, that makes him a bass player, too.

In theory only.

So, if i follow your train of thought, every nurse who can perform surgery is a surgeon and every contractor who can wire a new building is an electrician?

That's not how it works.

tZer · #18 10-01-2007, 02:05 PM

Not that I am agree with the rant, but I did just get back from a trip to Disney World last week. There were a lot of 'busker-style' performers all around each of the parks and the one instrument that was ALWAYS ABSENT was the bass. Pan flutes, guitars, mandolins, zen drums, you name it... tons of music that had bass lines, not a single bass player to be found.

I was saddened by this since I was away from my basses for this week and really would have loved at least seeing another bass.

**Pacman** · #19 10-01-2007, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stride000

In theory only.

So, if i follow your train of thought, every nurse who can perform surgery is a surgeon and every contractor who can wire a new building is an electrician?

That's not how it works.

Yes it is.

Anyone who can perform surgery is a surgeon - they're licensed. Contractors who can wire buildings are electricians. What's hard to understand about that? And yes - anyone who can cut a gig is a bass player, by definition.

You can hardly compare bass playing with surgery - I think you're overrating what we do, man...

tplyons · #20 10-01-2007, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mon Rominee

Two mods, including the gent who made the sticky for this forum didn't bag the OP for not completely masking his profanity...

Two mods? I only noticed one.

Besides that, the first two times I read through it, I didn't notice it either. Mods aren't perfect, and neither is anyone else.