bass tones for METAL (discussion on sounds)

[René_Julien]

Hi fellow metalhead bass players.

Don't think: "oh no, not another one", but bear with me.
Let's start a general discussion on this issue, since questions about this are asked a lot... by newbies and even experienced bassists.
Share your opinions, insights, tips and experiences on how to get a proper tone out of your axe to metal up some *****.

(And yeah I'm a little bit bored.)

In my 9 years of playing mostly metal, I've gone through different phases on what tone I produced... to box up against the walls of distortions coming from our... "SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND(s)!" [/Scarface]... guitarist(s).
I went from full on distortion to very clean to very low.
And by listening to a lot of metal and going to concerts I got inspired a lot by what the more succesful (than me) metal bassists are doing.

My perception of various tones used in metal music boils down to 4 categories:

• dub, a very low (clean) sound: I notice this with a lot of European progressive/melodic metal bands, when the bass is up against different instruments like guitar and a variety of acoustic instruments (wether they are coming from keyboards or really played in a recording studio). Take the Italian metalband Rhapsody for example: half the time instrumental performance (guitars and classical instruments), and half the time main focus on signing. In the singing parts the arsenal of instruments drops to a stop and it's mostly just high energy drums and a bassline. The bass's sound is very plain, yet low and powerful (no drive or very little tube-like drive). The singing keeps the whole song melodic and is in the higher register (tenor). There are other bands like this, but I think Rhapsody is the best example.
• clean and sharp: Best and well known example for this: Steve Harris. We all know how wonderful this Steve is. (If you don't think so then why are you reading this thread?? ). Steve flirts with a lot of treble as a bassist, he is all over the tonal spectrum. Also: he mid scoops a little. Yay for some, nay for others. A sharp sound rattling through everything, all about presence. This tone is very common in a lot of metal bands, many bassists even use a pick. Just a clean, very sharp tone. Even cold and uncoloured fits the description, as long as it is ballsy, fast and aggressive.
• grind to distortion: From tube growl from a classic SVT or Mesa to an arsenal of overdrive, distortions and fuzz pedals. What more can I say? Most metal bassists experience with this. As always -a horse beaten to death- finding the balance is the key. A distorted tone can sound good when practicing in private, but when up against one or two downtuned guitars through tube amps is difficult to keep yourself audible in the mix if you are going to jump in the dirt with your "little friends". This is a common issue for bassists who like to grind. (Been discussed a lot in the effects forum, most adviced solution is blending a dry signal with a dirty signal.) Also, I made a thread about it some months ago about using or not using distortion in metal. http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=472748 A lot of TBers shared their insights on this issue.
• use of effects for dimension: I have the feeling that a lot of metal bassists still say boo to effects. But times are changing. Some people can pull it off. Think of Justin Chancellor off course. But many state that Tool isn't metal, maybe it is because of the unconventional sounds they use. But it doesn't have to go as far as Justin Chancellor. Chorus seems popular to add some atmosphere, for backing up the guitarparts. Either in mellower passages, guitar powerchords or lead guitar solos. Even delays and reverbs are sometimes used for the dimension they add to the music. (Or other effects.)

This is just my perception. There is no authority on this.
And as a metal bassist you free to try out anything, as long as it suits the music.

So, share your opinion on this.
How would you describe the tones suited/used in metal?
What works best for you?
Anything from the kind of bass you use to amps, even playing technique or effects.





(Mods, I thought this thread belongs in miscellaneous. Covering all things with this discussion: bass, amp, technique... clothing. )

[CrazyArcher]

'Metal' is a too broad definition. What would fit for brutal death metal won't work for avant-garde stuff. You need a sound that sits well in the mix - but what does the mix include?

[stflbn]

I hear Dub and I instantly think Reggae huge low end with little definition... big difference.

[Baryonyx]

Don't be afraid of dialing in some mids if you need to cut through chugging guitars.

[baalroo]

I don't think a discussion on "metal bass tone" can ever go anywhere because it's so varied. Personally, I play doomy stoner rock/groove metal. I've found a P bass with a pick through a slighty overdriven tube preamp is perfect. My tone is actually more defined then either of the guitarists in my band. OTOH, I've heard guys in similiar bands play fingerstyle on a J with the treble rolled ALL the way off and it sounded great as well. It really completely depends on the person.

There's quite a few sounds one can choose from even within a split-hair sub genre. In technical death metal, Jeroen Thesseling uses a Jaco'ish sound heavy in the mids, and Stefan Fimmers uses quite a bit of "clank" in his sound. Go with whatever works best for the place and time, as mentioned.

[Darkstrike]

Hmmm, I generally go between two sounds when I'm playing metal, BEAD with flats, deep, deep, and growl. Going for the thunder, as it were.

Otherwise its standard/flat/DGCF with heavy rounds, big humbuckers(or P's), and lots of mids from the amp, power, agression and grind. Not distorted though.

I'll use a pick sometimes, with either setup.

Just two sounds that work for me, as we all know, theres a million out there.
Experementing is fun, so I'll always be trying something new.

[bassman1185]

First off, a disclaimer: I don't actually play in a metal band, I play in a very aggressive post-hardcore/hardcore/indie band. We have moments where we flirt with metal, though, and many of the same challenges arise (cutting through, keeping the low-end intact, etc.).

With that said, my "basic" tone goes something like this:

Jazz with SD Quarter Pounders, Bridge soloed, tuned CGCF, played with a pick, through a fairly transparent compressor, through a few dirt pedals and other effects, through an Aphex Bass Xciter, into my Kustom Groove1200/Tech21 B410s rig.

Lows (below 100 HZ): Mild Boost
Low Mids (100hz-400hz): Moderate Boost
Middy Mids (400hz-600hz): Slight Cut
High Mids (600hz-1.5khz): Moderate Boost
Highs (1.5khz and up): Moderate Boost

As for drive, I keep my Tech21 BassVT on all the time. This gets me a nice clear grit that mixes and compliments my guitarist (who is currently playing through a Marshall JCM800 half stack and a Mesa Boogie F-100 2x12 combo via a Morley ABY Box) quite nicely. With that setup, I am able to cut through fairly easily, but still retain a nice solid, ballsy low end. When I need a touch more drive, or when I switch over to fingerstyle, or when I need to fill in more sonic space, I'll kick in the boost function on my HBE Hematoma, which pushes the VT from a mild grit into more of a moderate grind. For a few songs, I'll kick in the drive section of the Hema with the gain set VERY low (about 8:00) which, combined with the VT, will give me a nice moderate distortion. Then I can still kick in the boost on the Hema to push it over the top and create sort of a wall of sound. When stuff needs to get REALLY hairy and doomy, I'll use the Big Muff model on my Digitech EX-7 and combine that with the octave up on the whammy model.

All of that gives me the choice of how much I want to cut through the mix, or how much I want to BECOME the mix that everyone else has to cut through. I think that versitility is the key, and being able to add textures to serve the song.

[thetawaves]

Huum. I'm a fingerstyle player, I use a Trace Elliot 4x10 combo and was using my first bass (downtuned ADAD with active soapbar p-ups) when I was in a metal band.

I found tone choice depended on the song.

sometimes when it was the drummer and I who had the first workings of a song...I'd have a scooped mid and we'd end up playing around with rhythms (was a huge fan of KoRn and Mudvayne at the time), leaving the main melody to the guitars.

If the song was started off by the guitarists I'd have a more pronounced mid-boost sound and be following their lead.

I don't tend to use effects, far too broke

[lemur821]

What I notice with a lot of death metal bands is that the bass is only audible when they do occasional runs in the higher register. My ideal death metal tone would be mellow up top, fading to a bridge pickup tone that cuts through on the very low strings.

[MaskedJackal]

My favorite metal players have lots of clank. Roger Patterson, Tony Choy, Steve Digiorgio and Ron Royce circa Coroner's No More Color album really use a clanky top-end to cut through, and I dig using that sound. But while all of these players except Ron use active pickups to get that sound, I like the warmth of passive pickups. Hence, I love Rics. Perfect combo of the two, IMO. I suppose a Jazz could do similar, but my mitts are just too large for a Jazz Neck.

Disclaimer: I don't currently play in a metal band.

[Kelly Lee]

Clean and sharp...that pretty much describes me about 90% of the time. The Steve Harris tone is one example and another is Frank Bello's tone on their recording of Got the Time. That is the tone I shoot for the most part. Wouldn't you agree that his intro tone is "clean and sharp"?

I run about a 50/50 blend between my pridge and neck P pickups and use a pick. That goes into a Trace head with a Trace 2x15 and Bright Box. I do use a little chorus in some arrangements that have melodic parts. If I want to get crazy I will bust out the wah and/or the H&K Warp Factor or Bad Monkey dist/od pedals. Depends on what works for the specific vibe the song dictates to me.

[pinkzepphish]

im not a fan of fuzz/distortion on bass in a band setting. it just loses all the oomph for me...

[LiquidMidnight]

I'm not a "metal" bassist...I'm not any type of "x" bassist. I'm just a bassist. However, we do flirt with metal throughout our setlist, including Pantera, Metallica, and even Overkill. Really, I approach my bass tone pretty much the same whether I'm playing metal or country. Good tone is good tone, IMO. I choose to alter timbre through technique (e.g., pizzicato vs. pick, different attack, etc.).

The bottom-line is that your guitarist(s) needs to understand tone. So many guitar players scoop their mids, and it sounds like ass. I don't care how cool it sounds in the bedroom. Alsok, guitar players need the right tool for the right job. I love the sound of a Fender Twin Reverb, but it's a low-gain amp and probably isn't going to do the modern metal thing. I've seen Marshalls really work in metal settings, but keep in mind that they are mid-focused and nasally amps. That's what they're built to do. Turning the gain the whole way to the right and the mids the whole way to the left is not going to magically transform it into a Dual Rectifier or a VHT. It's going to make it sound like a piece of trash. If that's the tone you're looking for, then buy a freakin' Mesa or a VHT! I love Metallica's Ride the Lighting album, but imagine that tone sucked live when they were touring in support of that record. I have some really good friends in a local death metal band. These cats know tone. I've seen them live, and they simply crush, especially through a quality FOH system. However, every lead cuts through and every harmonic is clean as a bell. The key to a great metal tone is not scooping the mids. It's having the right amp for what you want to do (the band, I believe plays Mesa Rectifiers through Marshall Mode Four cabs, and Engl rigs), and understanding how to tweak it.

As far as great metal tone - I still love Pete Perez's tone from Riot/Spastic Ink. Killer player too.

[MadMan118]

I'm a die hard Ibanez player but the only bone i have to pick with the brand is that their low and low-mids tend to be muddy, so to compensate I use a EQ in my rig and I also use effects mildly to help cut through the mix. I tend to cut back moderately on the low end and use more high-mids and treble. My basses are a Ibanez SRX 500 (two humbuckers) A SR 700 and SR 500 (soapbar) an Ernie Ball Stingray HH and what i use less commonly for metal a MIJ Fender P-Bass Special (P/J pups). On my pedal board there's a Boss overdrive, and octave pedal, a limiter/enhancer pedal and an Electro-Harmonix steel leather bass expander pedal. My rig consists of a Mesa Fathom(M-6 Carbine) head 4x10 and 1x15 cabinets also on the rack are a berringher equalizer and compressor.

My favorite metal bass players, like Alex Webster, Sean Malone and Stefan Fimmers, use a very clean tone. With all that mayhem going on, you can still really hear these guys - probably because they're so damn GOOD. Listen to Cannibal's album Kill. That is one behemoth bass tone. It's like a freakin' pile driver.

As far as distorted tones, my favorite, believe it or not, is Marco Tapani Hietala from Nightwish. He has a great grind without loosing any bottom. He really fills the mix out, both on album and live, considering the veritable orchestra he's playing with.

Yes, I just admitted to listening to Nightwish. So what? Wanna fight about it?!!

[Fine Cut]

when i used my jazz bass, it just didnt have the ballzy lowend i wanted, so i switched to my P bass. it had the lowend, but no matter how much i boosted the high mids, i couldnt get any snappy attack out of it. i picked up an OLP MM2, and it's exactly what i needed. crisp, clear as a bell tone, great attack and it's got the guts down low to hold the bottom. my EQ runs bass-1 oclock; low mids-12 oclock; high mids-1 oclock; treble-9 oclock. the more i "feel" out the OLP, the treble will probably be turned up a bit. i run through a Boss LM-2B for a little added sustain, and when i wanna add a little character i click on the Bassballs. i've got the low band filter adjusted for a really mild sweep, high band filter swishing over top of the bass, lets the bass through pretty clean and adds alot of color over top...i cut through clear as glass and still manage to hold the bottom down...that IS what we're there for, right

[Snakeman1066]

Well

I'm in a power Trio that plays Stoner/Sludge/Doom and I use a huge amount of Fuzz/OD/Distortion..

but i run stereo rigs...

One rig runs dirty 80% of the time in varying stages depending on the music/song

the other runs mostly clean with just a little gritty push

I have to fill a lot on sonic holes when the guitard solos...i use octave up to approximate a more guitar like sound and i play lot of transitional lines and solo from time to time

so i'm out front all the time....lol

[All_¥our_Bass]

I like gritty/grindy bass tones, as well as the super clean type (depending on what's oging on in the song). Think Cliff Burton if he had some high end in his tone.

I'm wierd my tone is mostly mids, with enough trble to give it some definition/zing, and very little low end.

[joeydavidson]

Originally Posted by pinkzepphish

im not a fan of fuzz/distortion on bass in a band setting. it just loses all the oomph for me...

+1

I like it totally clean, but if it's distorted then I like it really distorted and fuzzy like Shane Emburys tone in Napalm Death