Beware the Female singer/songwriter..

DrayMiles · #1 10-04-2007, 01:11 PM

I guess this applies to anyone, unfortunately, I've only had this problem with the "fairer sex." Here's my tale(s) of woe...

I've worked for 2 record companies and I split my time between bass and piano. I've spent the last 3 months working with a songwriter that "can hear songs," but can't play an instrument. She would sing a melody and I would sit at the piano and play chords that we both liked against it. I noticed that 1 chord would fit over her entire melody, but I found that kind of boring, obviously.

I hired the entire band and I hired the engineer. It's been entirely "professional" and I liked her as a personality. THIS GIRL CAN TALK! She's very opinionated about music and doesn't let people explain things well before she says no. At least, not anyone that knows what they're doing. I finally gave up in the studio and kept my mouth shut, when I noticed the pianist I "hired" started being an arranger. The budget vanished while they discussed her ideas. I told her since I'd written everything out, that wasn't a good idea, but she told me "I wrote the song. Why would I do anything to distort my vision." The engineer and I both shut up after that (He's Nina Hagen's MD and a good friend). To end it all, She recorded 2 out of 3 songs and she's not happy with one of them, and wants me to MD the band again for the showcase I booked for her. I said since she doesn't listen, why would I want any more drama? She was angry because the drummer said she didn't totally write the songs and since she didn't play an instrument she'd have a hard time..

I told her music was melody, rhythm and chords, and that "we" wrote the 2 songs together. She got upset and told me "we" didn't, that she "told me when the chords went up or down," so she wrote them herself.

I quit, since over the last 4 weeks she's argued with me only to call me and apologize AFTER she thought about it.

This is not the only time I've seen this happen.

Has anyone been through this? The girl is visual and she's been signed before, but they didn't release anything. She's also never done a gig in her life.

i_got_a_mohawk · #2 10-04-2007, 01:32 PM

Its not just women that are like that, you get idiots that think they are amazing for humming a tune all over the place

Rattman · #3 10-04-2007, 01:38 PM

In this case.. I'd have to say you've "went the extra mile" for her.. but as with all rather stupid people, you have to know when to say "enough!" and either do it the correct way, or simply walk away.. and rightly so as this seems to me to be a lost cause or a 'fool's errand'.. whichever is more accurate.

disenchant · #4 10-04-2007, 01:38 PM

I doubt that it has anything to do with being female. It just happens she is like that AND female. Even though it has happened before, I wouldn't generalize and say "beware of females." It would be like saying "beware of blue eyes" just because the people who happened to act a certain way both had blue eyes.

Sounds to me like she just doesn't have any understanding of music. It's all great to be able to "hear" if something sounds good...but can't we all? Even a baby can tell if something sounds good or bad. Also, maybe other people led her to believe she wrote songs when she did it like the way you two did. You know how people love to make others feel good and say "you did it!" when they really didn't. The music industry is famous for that, for stroking egos. For example, I saw a show on Ashlee Simpson. They were saying how she "wrote the album." Well, what they really did is she went in the studio and then a songwriter interviewed her about her feelings on subjects. Then the songwriter took her "feelings" and wrote lyrics. Then they asked her what kind of song she wanted it to be (fast, slow, etc) and then they wrote the song and asked her opinion. She didn't write the album. They just used her feelings and did it for her.

I'm just saying maybe her lack of experience has colored her view.

**john turner** · #5 10-04-2007, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrayMiles

She's also never done a gig in her life.

i don't get this. why did she get signed? this is amazing - she got backed because..why?

so many folks bust their butts on every level and actually have good music to share, and they get completely ignored, and then someone who has no purpose being considered as a professional musician (or even a musician period) gets signed. repeatedly.

a little anecdotal ranting : my band had a hard time getting -anyone- to listen to us. we would work like dogs, and we would gig anywhere. neil kernon mixed our first cd, said we had some of the best vocals he'd ever worked with (he's recorded, engineered and/or produced queensryche, queen, yes and hall and oates, among many others). never mind the fact that over the past year and a half our tunes have been downloaded over 500 times a day every single day from all over the world, and never mind the fact that -that- is with no p.r at all (The webpage hasn't even been updated since one of the guitarists quit).

according to "industry people" we're not "viable". lol.

am i bitter? a little, but more just annoyed when i hear uprofessional poser wannabe dipwads like this girl you're talking about being taken seriously as if they're some kind of undiscovered diamond in the rough, when hardworking talented and serious folks just get ignored.

i really hate that you got burned. she's a poser. obviously. and she's taken attention away from musicians who actually deserved it. shame.

**john turner** · #6 10-04-2007, 01:47 PM

oh, and since this is music related, i'm gonna move it to misc.

MakiSupaStar · #7 10-04-2007, 01:51 PM

She's a chick and an idiot. I think this falls more into the idiot category. Do your job get paid and move on. IMO.

ba-dum-ba-dum · #8 10-04-2007, 02:54 PM

bet she's realllly hot. this is probably where the "warning: female" thought comes from. how's a beautiful man like myself even able to compete

jerome_oneil · #9 10-04-2007, 05:53 PM

Never work with artists, dude. I don't give a rip about "visions" and other associated nonsense. If you're hiring, hire technicians, and entertainers. Artists can stay at home and weep.

Mike Money · #10 10-04-2007, 06:56 PM

tell me about it.

/i hate my female singer

Skel · #11 10-04-2007, 08:02 PM

I've had what seemed like a similar situtation but this guy was a chronic alcoholic, causing most of his problems.

But in your case a big red flag would have went off for me when I learned that she was an adult, she wasn't a musician who could at least bang out 2 or 3 chords, and she had NEVER performed EVER. With all that, the talk about "this chord needs to go "up" would have had me packing up my stuff as I said goodbye. Who has time for this nonsense?

Even Ringo can play 3 chords on the piano.

Spector_Ray · #12 10-04-2007, 09:12 PM

Just because somebody thinks a pizza tastes good, doesn't mean they know how to make one. Unfortunately, she'll probably never learn from her mistakes.

DrayMiles · #13 10-04-2007, 10:46 PM

I should have quit earlier, but I hate giving up on people. When I met a young drummer 3 years ago, he approached me with such humility, I've kinda mentored him. He's just now starting to understand there should be nothing to prove in music, just enjoyment and doing the best job possible.

I'm about to tour for a year, and I finally gave up. I helped another artist get a private audition with the owner of notting hill publishers, with the Cream lyricist Pete Brown. This girl proceeded to make her boyfriend her manager, break up with boyfriend, sell her house, and move to Wales. The deal folded...

I just want to play bass, but the current climate makes it hard to do that. I am a musician, but musicians are their own worst enemies sometimes.

She was an incredible dancer and visually had hair like Tina Turner. The label she was on was a subsidiary of EMI, but was killed in a corporate shuffle. She's half Morroccan and half Swiss. Very visual.. Weak voice, like Betty Boop really..

I think an artist that is exceptional live is one that can exploit the current marketplace. I've been in touch with a friend of mine that was Boyz II Men's engineer among others, he sent me this e-mail recently:

It's great to see your doing your thing! My thing's been a little shaky lately. Since we last met, I've been involved with some different indie labels...including one that I started myself with a partner, but we attempted to put out a pop record...how dumb was that!!!???. Today I'm writing tracks in my basement trying to get them placed.
Boy has this business changed.

I'm also doing this, but since she was such an incredible dancer, (in her house anyway) I hoped I could help her find a market niche. I'm going to play bass again for awhile. You know, tour, record a tight, road mature band, and produce that.. Hopefully.

DrayMiles · #14 10-04-2007, 11:01 PM

I forgot to mention...

My partner has a small recording studio, he met her and said "she's gonna be hard work, charge her $4000 a track for 3 tracks.." He said, to deal with her, that's what he wants.. She's been seeking investors.

I wanted to help her get something for her investors to listen to, so I did all that work on a budget of $2000 roughly..

He was right....

It would've been hard work either way, but at least more viable..

One day, I'll get rid of that heart of mine.. I guess looking at her was similar to looking at puss 'n' boots in shrek to an old softy like me.

I know most music business people don't want to deal with the artist. Period.. I truly am walking a fine line...

88persuader · #15 10-04-2007, 11:23 PM

Let me guess ... when she changes a light bulb she holds it to the socket and waits for the world to revolve around her?

I've worked with egos before but my god!!! She's a non-musician and doesn't deserve to work ... she'll probably become a superstar!!!

DrayMiles · #16 10-05-2007, 01:45 AM

Well, she's been in London for 2 years and she's done nothing. She spoke to someone at capitol records, and his advice was "go make it in Europe, then come back here.."

I met her and in 3 months she had 2 showcase gigs, a band, and a recording session.

I'll state that she's very organized at "some" things, and frantic at others. I just pointed her in the right direction and introduced her around.

"No good deed goes unpunished.."

Skel · #17 10-05-2007, 06:43 AM

Sounds like she wants to do about everything...except the work. It's a common thing with some people in all walks of life.

DrayMiles · #18 10-05-2007, 12:31 PM

Well, she called me and asked me to do her a favor and play at the showcase. I've respectfully turned that scenario down. No more drama!!!

Skel · #19 10-05-2007, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrayMiles

Well, she called me and asked me to do her a favor and play at the showcase. I've respectfully turned that scenario down. No more drama!!!

Good for you. Also what is her age, background, and education? Like what has she been doing all this time to not know 2 chords if she wanted to be an artist/performer?

Christopher · #20 10-05-2007, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrayMiles

The girl is visual and she's been signed before, but they didn't release anything. She's also never done a gig in her life.

That's where I would have left.