Big Juicy Can of "originals " from the worm store

[eSmith]

OK, this should be fun, I know I'm about to throw a big stink bomb but I seriously don't understand the allure of playing originals.

First, I associate it with my High School days where any idiot who couldn't learn to cover a song to save his life starts making up his own crappy music and for some reason people think he's suddenly a better player?

Seriously, there is already a mountain of horriable songs written by people without a clue how music is structured. Do we really need to fill the stage with more guys trying to find closure with there girlfriends by pouring there hearts out in a song about, well, nothing if you are not them. And they never seem to give it a dancable beat.

Trying to put everything you ever learned into a song before you ever learned to properly play or write a song is just a recipe for disaster.

So what is it that makes people think "originals Band" really means anything other than "Band of guys who can't play standard radio tunes"

The only thing you can really say about all of the same old same old originals is that they are never really very original at all. Same simple chord progressions in the same time signature with someone singing about stuff we just don't care about over the same standard riffs that never seem to end up in any of the cover tunes at the top of the charts.

When I see "originals" in a CL ad, the first thing I think is it's a band of teenagers still daydreaming about being rockstars during math class, I do not see it as a sign of a serious musician.

Pretending you can write music when you can barely understand music is like trying to write a great novel in a launguage you can't speak.

So, let's let the fun begin!



-eSmith.

[dozicusmaximus]

I better quit while I'm ahead then.
If something truly "original" came about, nobody would like it. Why because it would be original. Not to many people would know how to interperate it. Theres no chorus, where are the pretty vocals, why isn't there a guitar solo, why doesn't it sound "structured". imo

[OtterOnBass]

You're right. Let's turn off the radio and just listen to the recordings we already have.

What part of this post isn't trolling?

[Smokin' Toaster]

Well, every piece of music was an original at some point. Somebody somewhere back in time put together the first I - IV - V riff. And everybody who writes music has written some crap, be it Lennon, McCartney, Chick Corea, or anyone else. And at some point, they all wrote their first song.

OTOH, I've watched late night talk shows with the latest sensational band play their new hit song that sounds like the high school kids who just learned D-C-G chords and wrote a song with the "chung-chung-chunga-chung" strumming pattern and thought ***??? These guys are on TV and I just saw a guy on the street corner playing killer chops for the handful of quarters in his case????

[M0ses]

WOW. You have quite the opinion there. I also wish we had nothing to listen to but Beethoven and Bach.

Not.

Both of those artists are very dear to my heart.....but so is Jimmy Page.

[peterwsmith]

So everyone should stop writing original music right now because the stuff that's already out there is better?

Stupid.

[shadowtippy]

I can play covers and write (barely) originals. Does that make me better than other players? IMO, no. I know my limitations and I am aware that there are a lot of much better musicians here, and out there.

[zachoff]

Writing music is fun. Playing crappy radio rock is not.

[Bassdirty]

Well..yes...alot of "local band originals" Suck.

BUT, you have to wade thru all that suck to find the gems.

Im not sure if you mean local bands or famous bands doing originals..

But, if I started younger than I did (i started at 14) and practiced more.
I prolly woulda gone down the original road at some point.
Anyhoo..these days I'm rockin out in a "succesful coverband"..and all we cover is "originals".

They just happen to be someone elses originals .


.

[eSmith]

No, I don't think people should stop writing originals altogether.

I do think you need some basic skills before you do it.

I think very few bands have a single original worth listening to yet they seem to not play a single cover.

I think bands trying to tell stories instead of getting people dancing should stay on folk festival circut.

I do not think that because some talented people wrote good songs in the past that it means we need to suffer through 1000's of terriable songs from people who haven't dedicated the time to learning much music at all.

I don't think the stuff out there is "better" but if you can't play it what makes you think you have something to offer that is?

I think you should prove yourself by playing covers and add originals as you develop them IF they are good, if after a while you have full sets of originals then guess what, you earned your way there.

I think bands with no covers and beginner members should stick to learning to play rather than running around telling people you can and then playing crap and trying to leverage it artisticly as music when in reality.... it's crap.

If you want to sit around making up your own music all day everyday, that works fine. but if you can't play covers, why are you trying to get your band to play live?

I will also say I Think that if a band plays all originals and no covers, there is a far greater chance it is because thay can't than because they won't.

Yes, this is all just opinion.

Is it trolling to start an honest discussion? I have been thinking about this for a while and although it is going to be controversial, that doesn't mean we can't discuss it as adults.

-eSmith.

[JoeVictim]

Originally Posted by eSmith

OK, this should be fun, I know I'm about to throw a big stink bomb but I seriously don't understand the allure of playing originals.

First, I associate it with my High School days where any idiot who couldn't learn to cover a song to save his life starts making up his own crappy music and for some reason people think he's suddenly a better player?

Seriously, there is already a mountain of horriable songs written by people without a clue how music is structured. Do we really need to fill the stage with more guys trying to find closure with there girlfriends by pouring there hearts out in a song about, well, nothing if you are not them. And they never seem to give it a dancable beat.

Trying to put everything you ever learned into a song before you ever learned to properly play or write a song is just a recipe for disaster.

So what is it that makes people think "originals Band" really means anything other than "Band of guys who can't play standard radio tunes"

The only thing you can really say about all of the same old same old originals is that they are never really very original at all. Same simple chord progressions in the same time signature with someone singing about stuff we just don't care about over the same standard riffs that never seem to end up in any of the cover tunes at the top of the charts.

When I see "originals" in a CL ad, the first thing I think is it's a band of teenagers still daydreaming about being rockstars during math class, I do not see it as a sign of a serious musician.

Pretending you can write music when you can barely understand music is like trying to write a great novel in a launguage you can't speak.

So, let's let the fun begin!



-eSmith.

Because it's impossible to have my own thoughts or compose my own music.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by eSmith

Is it trolling to start an honest discussion?

In this case, yes it is. IMHO.

[peterwsmith]

The assumption that most original bands are so because they can't play covers is asinine at best.

You could apply almost everything you said to cover bands too.

"People just play covers because they're not good enough to write original music."

See? Goes both ways.

A crappy band is a crappy band, covers or originals. Believe me, we have plenty of both around here.

I'm done feeding the trolls now.

[eSmith]

BassDirty, good points. I do not mean famous bands. I'm strictly talking beginner bands at the local level.

I'm not against established bands going in that direction at all.

Someone needs to write originals.

think about this, lots of VERY TALENTED guys play jazz nightly. in many cases, these guys will create music on the spot that could easily be developed into originals but they improvise night after night, creating new music every step of the way and never stand up and go on like they have invented anything new.... ever.

Yet every band of guys out of high school seems to think if they play standard everyday simple rock progressions with very minor variations, that in a lot of cases are not even good musical choices, think they have come up with something "original"

That is what I am referring to. Not established musicians in established bands creating new work.

-eSmith.

[eSmith]

"People just play covers because they're not good enough to write original music."

See? Goes both ways.

No it doesn't, you just made my point again exactly as I meant it.

I said people should learn to play covers before they start writing origonals.

your saying people playing covers do so because they are not yet good enough to write origonals.

I tend to agree with you that that is often times exactly the case and that is what I am saying. What bugs me I guess is the guys that jump right over learning at all and make up some standard strumming and call it an origonal song.

Not every group is like this, some bands do very well, but we are talking less than 5% of them and the rest just suck.

-eSmith.

[Zoa]

Originally Posted by eSmith

OK, this should be fun, I know I'm about to throw a big stink MASSIVE bomb but I seriously don't understand the allure of playing originals.

The allure lies in a couple of things. First of all, creating music rather than just copying something note for note is one of the, IMO/E, one of the most rewarding things out there. Second, it allows us to stroke our egos. You feel a lot more pride in your work when someone says "wow, awesome song," and you can say "thanks, I wrote that," rather than "thanks, I copied that really well." Third, it allows us young'ns to dream. Fourth, for those of us who view music as a form of artistic expression rather than a job (not that there's anything wrong with that) it is far superior. If you were a painter, would you rather paint your own images, or spend all your time making endless and probably inferior copies of the Mona Lisa?

First, I associate it with my High School days where any idiot who couldn't learn to cover a song to save his life starts making up his own crappy music and for some reason people think he's suddenly a better player?

why do you assume that all non-popular original songs are crappy? Or are made by high schoolers? Or are made by people who can't play covers?

Seriously, there is already a mountain of horriable songs written by people without a clue how music is structured.

True

Do we really need to fill the stage with more guys trying to find closure with there girlfriends by pouring there hearts out in a song about, well, nothing if you are not them. And they never seem to give it a dancEble beat.

Yee-haw. More generalizations.

Trying to put everything you ever learned into a song before you ever learned to properly play or write a song is just a recipe for disaster.

So what is it that makes people think "originals Band" really means anything other than "Band of guys who can't play standard radio tunes"

Because a band of guys who can't play standard radio tunes probably are not going to be able to gig as an originals band? And for about a million other reasons?

The only thing you can really say about all of the same old same old originals is that they are never really very original at all. Same simple chord progressions in the same time signature with someone singing about stuff we just don't care about over the same standard riffs that never seem to end up in any of the cover tunes at the top of the charts.

Generalizing troll generalizes. Why do you think every original song ever written is a three chord love song?

When I see "originals" in a CL ad, the first thing I think is it's a band of teenagers still daydreaming about being rockstars during math class, I do not see it as a sign of a serious musician.

You're missing out on a lot of great music, then. Probably a lot of crappy music as well, but a lot of great music.

Pretending you can write music when you can barely understand music is like trying to write a great novel in a launguage you can't speak.

True. But why the !@#$ do you have this completely fictitious opinion that anyone who writes a song is automatically devoid of musical talent?? Plus, a good deal of these cover tunes you speak of so highly were written by people, who, at the time, knew much less about music than most of the original bands I see playing in my area.

So, let's let the fun begin!



-eSmith.

Why would anyone object to more music in the world? If no one ever wrote originals, then we will still be playing Mustang Sally in the year 3000.

[eSmith]

then we will still be playing Mustang Sally in the year 3000.

What makes you think we won't?

Again, creating music for fun and to learn with is a great idea, but I don't know why they want to bring the practice session to the stage.

MANY famous bands and great composers write lots of tunes they NEVER realease. I understand that even great musicians can produce a turd now and then. So my issue is why do these bands think the first five songs they can streach into a set are good enough to start gigging with.

and yes, these are generalizations, and they generally happen frequently, and I am not saying it is like this in every case. but we all know it happens a lot.

generalizations, like stereotypes exist for a reason. Nobody ever likes to be stereotyped but that doesn't make them invalid. If you want to dress like a thug, act like a thug, hang out with thugs and be a thug, don't cry when someone calls you a thug. You are being stereotyped and it is accurate.

Nothing wrong with discussing a general topic in general terms. If fact I would call it trolling if I got specific and pointed out specific people and bands. I'm not doing that so those of you who want to call me a troll obviously don't understand what a troll is and attribute trolling to anyone posting anything you don't agree with.

Those with nothing better to offer than to come in and try to label me a troll personally and add nothing else to the conversation... well, there are your real trolls.....

-eSmith.

[DreadRaver]

Some people wanna fill the world with silly love songs
And what's wrong with that?

[eSmith]

If something truly "original" came about, nobody would like it. Why because it would be original. Not to many people would know how to interperate it. Theres no chorus, where are the pretty vocals, why isn't there a guitar solo, why doesn't it sound "structured". imo

Jaco, Jamerson, Claypool. etc. I'm sure you see the point. Many people do change the face of our instrument with new ideas and they do get widely accepted.

I don't know why you think nobody would accept it, in the past it has always been accepted, why are you thinking this has changed?

-eSmith.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by eSmith

Again, creating music for fun and to learn with is a great idea, but I don't know why they want to bring the practice session to the stage.

To have fun and to learn?