Bossa Nova Clave?

[Pat The Bassist]

I am about to do a youtube video of just a bass doing "Blue Bossa" and in listening to the original, I can't seem to figure out what kind of clave to use. any suggestions?

[fmoore200]

Not exactly sure (I don't play bossa nova at all) but I believe the bossa is a Brazilian rhythm and not based of the clave.

I could be wrong, and probably am. Lol

[mambo4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clave_(rhythm)

scroll halfway down the page and read the "Bossa nova pattern" section

[Stick_Player]

Originally Posted by fmoore200

Not exactly sure (I don't play bossa nova at all) but I believe the bossa is a Brazilian rhythm and not based of the clave.

I could be wrong, and probably am. Lol

Clave = Rhythm.

There are different "claves"... info is freely available on the ol' internet.

[fmoore200]

Originally Posted by Stick_Player

Clave = Rhythm.

There are different "claves"... info is freely available on the ol' internet.

Sorry, but "clave = rhythm" is a very simplistic way of putting it, lol. The clave, in salsa at least, is a very specific rhythm. There are two versions, in fact. The 2-3 clave is one and the 3-2 clave is the other.

I don't just go to Wikipedia for info. I generally use my experiences and knowledge. I may not be right all the time, but that's what's great about these forums.

But I do not agree with the general definition "clave = rhythm." Dare I say that definition is less helpful than my own for bossa.

My .02

[Stick_Player]

Originally Posted by fmoore200

Sorry, but "clave = rhythm" is a very simplistic way of putting it, lol. The clave, in salsa at least, is a very specific rhythm. There are two versions, in fact. The 2-3 clave is one and the 3-2 clave is the other.

I don't just go to Wikipedia for info. I generally use my experiences and knowledge. I may not be right all the time, but that's what's great about these forums.

But I do not agree with the general definition "clave = rhythm." Dare I say that definition is less helpful than my own for bossa.

My .02

That was the idea... to keep it simple. Where did wikipedia figure into my post?

There is the Brazilian Clave.

Maybe stop looking at just wikipedia?

[fmoore200]

Originally Posted by Stick_Player

That was the idea... to keep it simple. Where did wikipedia figure into my post?

There is the Brazilian Clave.

Maybe stop looking at just wikipedia?

Ok, so there is a Brazilian clave, I stand corrected. that's why I said in my first post that I wasn't sure if Brazilian music was based in the clave.

I still believe that the "clave = rhythm" definition is overly simplistic. It's like saying "shuffle = rhythm." While it is true that the shuffle is a type of rhythm, just saying that offers no insight into the specifics of how to play said rhythm, or adapt it to tour style of play, which is what I believe the OP was looking for.

And I specifically said that I do not look at Wikipedia for my information.

Sorry if this discussion has taken the thread in a different direction.

[Stick_Player]

Originally Posted by fmoore200

I still believe that the "clave = rhythm" definition is overly simplistic.

These Claves look like Rhythms to me:

[fmoore200]

Originally Posted by Stick_Player

These Claves look like Rhythms to me:

Lol, ok if it makes you happy, clave is the equivalent of rhythm.

[f.clef]

Originally Posted by fmoore200

Lol, ok if it makes you happy, clave is the equivalent of rhythm.

Ah! So, it would make sense to understand the first movement of Mahler's "Titan" in terms of clave? Is that fair either to Mahler or to the clave tradition?

Anyway, agreeing with your LOL, and also with your reluctance to argue the semantics!

[mambo4]

In defense of wikipedia, the clave page there is quite comprehensive, acurate, and useful.

[pbasswil]

If you check out the original major version of this Kenny Dorham tune, on Joe Henderson's Page One album -- at least on the iTunes 30 second teaser -- Pete LaRoca is playing it pretty loose. It sounds good, and it sounds latin in a general way, but I don't think he's trying to adhere to a strict stylistic formula.

If ' marks a downbeat 8th-note rest, and , marks a beat 3 8th-note rest,
you can't go wrong with stuff like:

' . x . , x . . | x . . x , . x . |

[pbasswil]

Oh, I just noticed that what I wrote is equivalent to "the key" 2/3, in Stick_Player's post #8 above.

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by fmoore200

Lol, ok if it makes you happy, clave is the equivalent of rhythm.

So then melody figure for Waltz For Debby is a 3/4 jazz clave? Yeah, right.

[odin70]

There is no clave in Bossa Nova..At least not like the cuban clave. There is a similar pattern..1, 2and, 4 - 2, 3and.

[m0nst3r]

There's a clave in Blue Bossa? I thought clave was only present in Afro-Cuban music. When I think of a Bossa and Brazilian music in general, the pattern I think of is a dotted eight note followed by sixteenth note repeated over and over again.