Branford Marsalis' take on students today

[JAUQO III-X]

And I agree with him.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rz2jRHA9fo

[Shakin-Slim]

he's on to something

[Bassman8416]

Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X

And I agree with him.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rz2jRHA9fo

This is so true!!!!!

[jmattbassplaya]

I`d actually take this a step further and say it basically applies to all people these days. It`s what you get when you try to be overly politically correct and say everyone is special, everyone`s opinion is right, everyone is equal, and everyone is entitled to only nice things out of life. People need a wake-up call. You only get what you work for, some people simply are better than you (some are also worse), you can be wrong at times, and you`re only special to your own mother.

[duff beer]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

I`d actually take this a step further and say it basically applies to all people these days. It`s what you get when you try to be overly politically correct and say everyone is special, everyone`s opinion is right, everyone is equal, and everyone is entitled to only nice things out of life. People need a wake-up call. You only get what you work for, some people simply are better than you (some are also worse), you can be wrong at times, and you`re only special to your own mother.

Exactly. Too many people today just can't accept that they may not be as special or as talented as they think they are. Anyone who dares tell them this is usually accused of being jealous.

[Bass.]

agreed.

I thought he was going to say something lame and scripted...

I'm so glad he kept it real.

[Anthbass]

Some real truth there. Over the years, I have tutored/taught/TAd some of the most entitled young people I could have imagined. I've had parents visit me to 'discuss' the grades/academic train wrecks that their son/daughter clearly did not warrant. And I have the same parents threaten me and leave angry. But take heart: if Mr. Marsalis is takin' the high road, I will continue to do so, too!

[baalroo]

yeah, the funny thing is that it's the fault of the generation that complains the most about it. It's hard for me to blame children for the way they were brought up... the Gen Xers/Baby Boomers have really blown it IMO.

[D.A.R.K.]

spot on.
he does sound like an atypical angry jazz instructor,
although he's got nothing on my old history of jazz teacher,
herb smith.

[Giraffe]

I strongly agree with Mr. Marsalis, and I would be happy to have him live next door to me. A smart man with the courage and integrity to tell the whole truth.

I used to work with a bunch of folks who had developed this sick culture of euphemistic language and verbal spinning to the point where you could not believe 30% of what anyone said, and you replied to almost every statement with a quizzical look and "What the hell do you mean, in unambiguous, unvarnished English??!!??!!??"

I retired early because I had lost respect for a group of people who couldn't bring themselves to speak the truth, and who treated anyone who did speak the truth like an unsophisticated cave man.

Ben Franklin said something to the effect of "We should love our critics, because they teach us what we need to be working on improving." I'm sure he said it better than that, but you get the point.

[Nurb]

It hurts realising I'm probably like that most of the time.

[LM Bass]

I was ready to jump onboard with this one, as it's an obvious trend in today's culture. But, on second thought, I was thinking, let's say I'm a former student of his, and this is what he says about me. . .

Hopefully he is speaking in a real general way, because I can't imagine that a student lucky enough to study with someone on his level wouldn't be VERY committed and diligent.

[crustychef]

I was that way when I was a sax player. My professors and C.U. and U.T.A. just coddled all of us. Then I went to U.N.O. and got schooled. 13 years later I am much wiser and reborn a bass player. Now it makes me uneasy when people compliment me. Especially when it's over the top. Blowing smoke up a students ass just gets them burned down the road.

[jollygiantchris]

"The idea of what you are is more important then the idea of you actually being that"
Think that applies to our entire society nowadays

[smeet]

Uh, no. I see what he's talking about, but it's an unfair generalization, and if were about a different group than young people, many of you would be in an uproar about it.
He's right about some people.
He's wrong about other people.
Same as in any generation.

Do you think that 100% of the students he sees are like that? If you were an open-minded, level-headed student of his and you heard him say this, how would that make you feel?

I've always liked him, but he's starting to sound more like Wynton. Very talented, but that doesn't mean that everything that comes out of their mouths is the Gospel truth.

And just because something is harsh doesn't mean it's "real."


EDIT: I'll admit that this generation is coddled and always told they are doing great no matter what they do. It is still not fair to paint an entire generation with the same brush. Some people are diligent and open to criticism and always willing to learn from everybody around them.

[bottomzone]

WOW! That's telling like it is. There doesn't seem to be a lack of candor in the Marsalis family!


A Groove is a Terrible Thing to Waste!

[Gard]

Originally Posted by smeet

Uh, no. I see what he's talking about, but it's an unfair generalization, and if were about a different group than young people, many of you would be in an uproar about it.
He's right about some people.
He's wrong about other people.
Same as in any generation.

Do you think that 100% of the students he sees are like that? If you were an open-minded, level-headed student of his and you heard him say this, how would that make you feel?

I've always liked him, but he's starting to sound more like Wynton. Very talented, but that doesn't mean that everything that comes out of their mouths is the Gospel truth.

And just because something is harsh doesn't mean it's "real."


EDIT: I'll admit that this generation is coddled and always told they are doing great no matter what they do. It is still not fair to paint an entire generation with the same brush. Some people are diligent and open to criticism and always willing to learn from everybody around them.

As a guy that has taught at several levels, Branford is more right than wrong. For every "serious" student I've had, there have been 100 that just wanted to hear how great they were doing - even if they weren't doing ANYTHING.

It's not really the kid's fault though, it's society and it's overweening desire to make every child feel special. Sorry kids, we're not all special - starting with ME.

Branford was keeping it real, not just being harsh. Sometimes harsh is real, and THIS is that time.

[JAUQO III-X]

Originally Posted by Gard

As a guy that has taught at several levels, Branford is more right than wrong. For every "serious" student I've had, there have been 100 that just wanted to hear how great they were doing - even if they weren't doing ANYTHING.

It's not really the kid's fault though, it's society and it's overweening desire to make every child feel special. Sorry kids, we're not all special - starting with ME.

Branford was keeping it real, not just being harsh. Sometimes harsh is real, and THIS is that time.

I believe that some times it is the kids(or students) fault. Most know very well that they are bsing themselves while thinking their bsing the teacher. I have students and for many of the reasons that Branford explained in the clip, I weed those who are not serious out. I do not have time to have my time wasted and I let them know early on.

For the most part a lot of students are caught up in the glamor aspect of the music/instrument, while striving to be the best poser, etc.

Wen it comes to bass these days I have never seen so many bassist that lack at least the basic understanding and ability to groove.

A decent teacher can tell when the student has done the home work.

[FromBeyond]

Originally Posted by Nurb

It hurts realising I'm probably like that most of the time.

Ha, I recognize myself in that statement...
That being said, I agree with what he's saying.
A large part of this originates from the parents, I believe.

I remember when my folks (and especially my mother) were quite angry with my French teacher because i failed a test. Obviously, the teacher must have done something wrong, because it is Impossible to conceive that their son might actually be terrible at french...
Having faith in your own abilities is great, but knowing where those abilities stop is much, much more important IMO.

[Gard]

Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X

I believe that some times it is the kids(or students) fault. Most know very well that they are bsing themselves while thinking their bsing the teacher. I have students and for many of the reasons that Branford explained in the clip, I weed those who are not serious out. I do not have time to have my time wasted and I let them know early on.

For the most part a lot of students are caught up in the glamor aspect of the music/instrument, while striving to be the best poser, etc.

Wen it comes to bass these days I have never seen so many bassist that lack at least the basic understanding and ability to groove.

A decent teacher can tell when the student has done the home work.

I absolutely agree with what you're saying. My point was that the kids learn the attitude from their parents - not that they have it given to them at the time they're with you, but that they are told how "special" they are from the time they're born, until they BELIEVE they are. Then even if they KNOW they're not, they will hang on to that "special" attitude - just as Branford says:

"The idea of what you are is more important then the idea of you actually being that"

That is from their upbringing, and from the society in which they are daily immersed. We are all special, bright shining stars.

The hell we are. You wanna be special, MAKE YOURSELF SPECIAL BY DOING THE WORK NECESSARY TO BE SO. You don't get it for breathing.

As for knowing that a student did the work, yeah, any teacher worth their salt knows immediately. I would give the same lesson to kids for months on end because they didn't do the work. I'd tell them, I'd tell their parents.

I felt like Don Quixote tilting at windmills, but never gave up, always did it with the unflagging HOPE that one week I'd get through.



Like good old Don, almost without fail, the windmills still stand...



I no longer teach, mainly because of the burnout this caused for me....and I miss that connection I would get with the kids that GOT it, that did the work, put the effort in, and really made something happen. Sadly, they were too rare.