Can you "listen" to yourself play?

[Skel]

I first heard of this concept while studying classical guitar. One day my teacher asked me if i was listening to myself as I played. Huh? After he explained it, I got it. I'm currently getting back into shape with the 6 string electric and having to really listen to myself while I play.

If you can get this concept it's HUGE. You have to almost close your eyes, so as not to focus on anything technical, fingerings, chord change anticipation, nothing. You block out everthing and *listen* just as if you were listening to somebody else play. When you really hear yourself play, you'll start playing differently and MUCH better.

[morf]

Yes, that's called playing music welcome to the club

[Skel]

Originally Posted by morf

Yes, that's called playing music welcome to the club

With all due respect, I don't think you understand what I'm saying, but if you do - that's great.

[RWP]

I think I get what you are talking about. I always sound different when I listen to my playing recorded. That is probably because I can't 'listen' to myself. Have to work on that.

[mjolnir]

Yup, awesome concept. I never really understood the relationship of scales to melodies until I started doing that.

[theshadow2001]

I find it easier to make a recording and listen to myself back so I can concentrate on doing things technically an then see if I pulled it off. If not then I make adjustments and try again.

I've never liked these kind of "just listen to yourself play" or "be one with the instrument" type of nebulous non defined approaches. Frankly I think these approaches reek of hippyness and don't really have any basis or foundation.

[smeet]

This concept is very simple but very important.
Kenny Werner wrote a book called "Effortless Mastery" that is amazing.

First, you watch your hands play without trying to do it - they do it on their own.
Next, imagine you step out of yourself and you are now watching yourself play.

You don't try to correct mistakes, instead you observe all your mistakes without judgement.

The idea is that you are a better player when your conscious mind is not interfering. If you stop obsessing and thinking, you will be amazed at how well (and how effortlessly) you can actually play.

I highly recommend the book. It has done a lot for my playing and especially how much I can enjoy my own playing.

[mjolnir]

Originally Posted by theshadow2001

I find it easier to make a recording and listen to myself back so I can concentrate on doing things technically an then see if I pulled it off. If not then I make adjustments and try again.

I've never liked these kind of "just listen to yourself play" or "be one with the instrument" type of nebulous non defined approaches. Frankly I think these approaches reek of hippyness and don't really have any basis or foundation.

You make a good point, but I think the point of the exercise is to get the foundations down first, then let your more developed talent do the talking while you devote more of your attention to actually listening to it.

[Skel]

Originally Posted by theshadow2001

I find it easier to make a recording and listen to myself back so I can concentrate on doing things technically an then see if I pulled it off. If not then I make adjustments and try again.

I've never liked these kind of "just listen to yourself play" or "be one with the instrument" type of nebulous non defined approaches. Frankly I think these approaches reek of hippyness and don't really have any basis or foundation.

But the whole trick about this is developing your brain to be able to LISTEN while simultaneously playing. It's not quite the same as recording, then listening back, because that way doesn't allow you to play better in real time.

[IconBasser]

I sometimes practice in front of a mirror, just to see what my hands look like while playing. Does that.. sorta.. count..?

[Skel]

Originally Posted by mjolnir2730

You make a good point, but I think the point of the exercise is to get the foundations down first, then let your more developed talent do the talking while you devote more of your attention to actually listening to it.

I didn't really read this at first. You get it exactly.

[El Barbero]

Originally Posted by theshadow2001

I find it easier to make a recording and listen to myself back so I can concentrate on doing things technically an then see if I pulled it off. If not then I make adjustments and try again.

I've never liked these kind of "just listen to yourself play" or "be one with the instrument" type of nebulous non defined approaches. Frankly I think these approaches reek of hippyness and don't really have any basis or foundation.

Listening to a recoding is in truth listening to what you have played rather listening to what you are playing. If you concentrate on the technique ( in and of itself ) and ignore the sound it produces the sound becomes mechanical.

Get yourself a really good pair of headphones, pick half a dozen of your favorite tracks, enhance the bass and compare what you her to sheet music or tab for those pieces. Here's the kicker, although the sheet music or tab will be 'technically' correct it will not be what you hear because the nuances of the real sound have been removed, for the simple reason that they cannot be written.

If on the other hand you use your ears as well you will include all the nuances that produce a great sound. I've only been playing for four years and it's only for the last one of those that I've even begun to understand what was meant by "listen to yourself play" and "be at one with the bass".

To be fair, I too felt those phrases were a little flowery but they are in fact the whole basis and the very foundation of music, but I only "got it" when it was put to me in a slighly different way.

It was explained to me by a new friend who has been a professional musician for the past 30+ years who said " yeah, being at one with your instrument is good but you are far better being at one with the music you are playing. If you can do that you will have room express yourself within that song and create music of your own".

[KeithBMI]

Originally Posted by IconBasser

I sometimes practice in front of a mirror, just to see what my hands look like while playing. Does that.. sorta.. count..?

It depends if you're working on your "rock" stances.

[SirCanealot]

I don't see what you guys are talking about, but maybe. Like, when I'm playing I sound 100% awesome. When I listen to the recordings, I sound 110% awesome, like I was concentrating too much to notice that extra 10% of awesomeness!!

;P

Naw, I listen to myself. Just wish I listened to the guitars more... My band has solid players

[morf]

Originally Posted by Skel

With all due respect, I don't think you understand what I'm saying, but if you do - that's great.

I do, and it indeed is great, so great it wouldn't be fun to play without it in fact

There is no trick to this. You have to concentrate on how the music you're playing makes you feel, and not how you're playing it, as in not think about technique but go completely with instincts. Thats what makes it fun, and thats what makes you rock.

[The Golden Boy]

Listening to myself?

Not so much.

Attempting to listen to the band as a whole?

Yeah.

You ever run across things that sound great, make all the sense in the world, flows nicely- when you're playing them by themselves? Then when you put it into the band context- it just doesn't shake out.

It's always when you come up with some super clever line or run- you have to be able to step outside of yourself, overstep your ego and go to plan B.


As far as listening to recordings...

I'm of the age that when you wanted a professional sounding recording you had to go to a studio. Whenever I would record in the studio something would always be wrong. Either my sound wasn't there, or something goofy would manifest itself. So, not only am I forking out a buttload of money to record- but then it never comes out the way I envision it. For the first few years I hate listening to it- but then after a while the issues are forgotten, the tone becomes a part of the song and you just hear the whole thing.

[Skel]

Originally Posted by The Golden Boy

Listening to myself?

Not so much.

Attempting to listen to the band as a whole?

Yeah.

You ever run across things that sound great, make all the sense in the world, flows nicely- when you're playing them by themselves? Then when you put it into the band context- it just doesn't shake out.

It's always when you come up with some super clever line or run- you have to be able to step outside of yourself, overstep your ego and go to plan B.


As far as listening to recordings...

I'm of the age that when you wanted a professional sounding recording you had to go to a studio. Whenever I would record in the studio something would always be wrong. Either my sound wasn't there, or something goofy would manifest itself. So, not only am I forking out a buttload of money to record- but then it never comes out the way I envision it. For the first few years I hate listening to it- but then after a while the issues are forgotten, the tone becomes a part of the song and you just hear the whole thing.

Hmmm. What you've said is true. I can't count the number of times I get a run or riff down perfectly, then when it comes time to play it with the band I fall apart. And the only solution seems to be to play it with the band, with an audience, time after time, because this setting is just different - don't know why, don't care why. I still contend though, that you can listen to yourself play and if you do, you will play much better.

[bigfatbass]

Frankly I think these approaches reek of hippyness and don't really have any basis or foundation.

Wow. I know dozens of world class players that would completely disagree with you on that.

Like, ask Oteil how his playing changed when he started singing his lines. Hearing yourself is the single most important aspect of getting over the improv hurdle. If you can't hear it before you play it, you are only mimicking patterns, not truley speaking from your heart with your instrument.

I pity such a closed-minded view of the artistry of playing.

[88persuader]

Well I understand the concept and admit to having issues with it. Not issues with the truth of it ... issues DOING it. When I'm gigging I never think about the physical playing aspect, that comes naturally. I listen to the music and play along and enjoy it. HOWEVER sometimes i'll listen to a performance that was recorded and realize that I often overplay! Example, my band did a cover of "Still Got The Blues." I really got into a hot spontaneous groove with the drummer ... we added a lot of fills and fancy runs and cooked real hot! AND the crowd loved it! But hearing the recording in my opinion we KILLED the song with a rhythm section that totally over played and burried the guitar players performance when it was his turn to shine. We should have supplied a solid foundation and instead we stole the show. I didn't HEAR myself overplaying, I didn't HEAR the drummer and me KILL the tune ... I wasn't listening to what I was playing in the "context of the song" ... I was too busy being caught up in the emotion of the moment. And if someone would have told me i over played at that moment i would have told them they were crazy. But hearing the recording myself opened my eyes. So I freely admit ... I sometimes have an issue with hearing myself in the context of the whole band while I play. Which is why at least for me it's important to record a live performance every now and then ... because i can tell how good or bad I'm playing BASS but I apparently can't always tell if I'm over playing BASS. I can't always HEAR what I'm playing in a band context ... I'm too focused on MY personal performance ... not THE BANDS performance.

They say confession is good for the soul! :-)

[morf]

Originally Posted by 88persuader

Well I understand the concept and admit to having issues with it. Not issues with the truth of it ... issues DOING it. When I'm gigging I never think about the physical playing aspect, that comes naturally. I listen to the music and play along and enjoy it. HOWEVER sometimes i'll listen to a performance that was recorded and realize that I often overplay! Example, my band did a cover of "Still Got The Blues." I really got into a hot spontaneous groove with the drummer ... we added a lot of fills and fancy runs and cooked real hot! AND the crowd loved it! But hearing the recording in my opinion we KILLED the song with a rhythm section that totally over played and burried the guitar players performance when it was his turn to shine. We should have supplied a solid foundation and instead we stole the show. I didn't HEAR myself overplaying, I didn't HEAR the drummer and me KILL the tune ... I wasn't listening to what I was playing in the "context of the song" ... I was too busy being caught up in the emotion of the moment. And if someone would have told me i over played at that moment i would have told them they were crazy. But hearing the recording myself opened my eyes. So I freely admit ... I sometimes have an issue with hearing myself in the context of the whole band while I play. Which is why at least for me it's important to record a live performance every now and then ... because i can tell how good or bad I'm playing BASS but I apparently can't always tell if I'm over playing BASS. I can't always HEAR what I'm playing in a band context ... I'm too focused on MY personal performance ... not THE BANDS performance.

They say confession is good for the soul! :-)

Do you always ONLY improvise in a band context? Stick to a bassline that you've worked with and think is "enough" for the song, work on changes etc that fit and sound good without overplaying, and then stick to what you learned in a band's context. I had the same problem as you, and if I dont improvise I usually dont overplay too much, its all about noticing it and being careful next time around.