Cheap Chapman-sticks?

[Demon]

Hey, ive been interested in these instruments and, by searching the internet i found some official looking chapman site, dont know if its patented or something? Anyhow, i cant afford one such at this stage, but does anyone know if there are made any cheaper newbie versions? I guess itd be hard to find since i doubt they are made in factories since the demand isnt high, so theyr handmade right?
Damn, so many possibilities with these things-.-

Thought id ask anyway. To be on the safe side.. hehe

[santucci218]

it is patented.

hand made 100%

cheapest one would be trying ebay, or trying to find a used warr guitar.

best of luck for the tappers!

[Demon]

As i suspected, then itll have to wait a few years. But its okay i guess Thanks!

[Jumbotron]

Decent instruments for tapping for cheap basically don't exist. But you can often find good deals on these: http://austindouglasguitars.com/ They're kind of a stripped down warr. Another "cheap" alternative is http://www.megatar.com/english/home.html.
If you go the way of tapping, brace yourself for a steep learning curve. Fun, though.

[Rusty Chainsaw]

Originally Posted by Jumbotron

Decent instruments for tapping for cheap basically don't exist. But you can often find good deals on these: http://austindouglasguitars.com/ They're kind of a stripped down warr. Another "cheap" alternative is http://www.megatar.com/english/home.html.
If you go the way of tapping, brace yourself for a steep learning curve. Fun, though.

+1 to the above - the Austin Douglas ones are very good. I've also heard good things about Krappy's touchstyle guitars (ignore the name, the guy knows his stuff) - they're cheap too. Check them out - http://krappyguitars.com . And get a Punk Rod while you're at it.

[DigMe]

I had an opportunity to buy a used Chapman Stick for a killer price a few years back but I was dead broke at the time.

bc

[traktor]

Originally Posted by Jumbotron

Decent instruments for tapping for cheap basically don't exist. But you can often find good deals on these: http://austindouglasguitars.com/ They're kind of a stripped down warr. Another "cheap" alternative is http://www.megatar.com/english/home.html.
If you go the way of tapping, brace yourself for a steep learning curve. Fun, though.

Hi, Jumbotron,

Thanks for the plug for Mobius Megatar tapping instruments. Because tapping instruments actually and truly do need to have a very low action in order to play well, it's not so easy to crank them out for the price of a Mexican strat. Or even a Mexican strat plus a Mexican p-bass. (Since it has six melody strings and also six bass strings and pickups and hardware and such.)

However, you are correct: The more affordable instruments in the market today are
Mobius Megatar, ADG, and Krappy. (Yes, it's not a very marketing-oriented name, but Krappy Guitars does make very affordable instruments, and they generally get pretty good reviews.)

But what I wanted to reply to was your comment saying "... brace yourself for a steep learning curve."

I would agree that many people, learning the to play a Chapman Stick, which has melody strings in fourths and bass strings in fifths, have had a similar experience to a young child asked to pat the head and rub the tummy.

A human is just not designed to easily do that.

Oh, you can learn to do it. I learned. Lots of people did.

But there's a much better way.

If you have melody strings in fourths, that's swell and no problem. Anyone playing guitar or bass already knows how to play those melody strings in fourths. So learning transfers quickly.

And if you'd like to have learning transfer just as quick and easy, the answer is simple -- just tune the bass strings in the same fourths!

In fact, set up the right way, you can place your left hand over bass strings (down near fret two), and place your right hand over melody strings (up near fret twelve), and the notes beneath each hand are exactly identical across all six of the strings beneath each hand.

Set up in this way, and with a sensible learning system (a method), you can actually learn to play two-handed touch-style a little easier than it is to learn to play normal guitar, or piano.

Because when it's set up right, you operate your two hands exactly identically to produce the same notes in bass or melody. This will actually allow you to initially train your two hands simultaneously.

The clarity, and ability to train the two hands identically and simultaneously adds power and speed of learning.

If you'd like to see *exactly* how this works, our company offers a free newsletter with lessons and articles on bass-tapping and music. And with this free newsletter, we give away a download of a complete method book showing how to apply this *easier* method of two-handed tapping.

The method book is written so it will work on a Chapman Stick, or on our instrument with strings in easy-to-learn fourths, or on a multiple-string bass in fourths.

So if you have an interest in learning more about an easier way to play with both hands at the same time, I cordially invite you to obtain a free subscription (and a free method book). It requires only your name and email address, and this info will be used for nothing other than sending your newsletter and method book; and of course you can drop out at any time if you wish.

If you would like to have the newsletter and method book sent to you, the subscription form is here --

MegaTapper Newsletter Form

And, if you'd like to see and hear what this method sounds like, these other links might be of interest --

Tutorial Video with Super-Simple Examples

Songs made on Mobius Instruments

Some Performance Videos

I don't think ADG and Krappy have much in the way of songs or videos, but there are some really good performance videos on the Chapman Stick website.

However, whether you might be interested in two-handed tapping on a specialty instrument or on a multi-stringed bass, if approached sensibly it's not all that difficult. And what's probably more important ... it's really fun!

-- Traktor Topaz

[evilgus]

Hi folks,

Just to be fair, I need to add that Traktor's opinion on inverted fifths tuning is just that, his opinion. Yes, a bunch of people *might* have found that tuning to be difficult, but plenty of people have also discovered *why* it was invented and the many benefits of it. Just to name a few - Good hand ergonomics and healthy wrist angles, ease of playing arpeggios with one hand, high range of notes within reach of one hand, all of those lead to economy of motion. Efficient. Minimalist. Stick.

I'm bass-player with fairly average technical knowledge and I haven't found the inverted fifths tuning difficult at all. It's actually the hand independance that takes time to develop and that will be required for any mixture of tuning on any tapping instrument.

In addition, bassists or guitarists also have to get used to making tones with both hands, not just using one for string energising. That can be fun and certainly clumsy for a while.

Cheers,

EG

Bass/Stick player

[traktor]

Hi, evilgus,

Yes, you are correct in several ways. Quite a few people have learned the 'Inverted-Fifths' bass-strings tuning, including me.

And, like any tuning, there are some interesting things in the inverted fifths tuning.

I base my opinion and preference on having learned and played two-handed touchstyle instruments with both 'inverted-fifths' bass strings, and with '6-string bass' bass strings (which we call 'BassBottom). Over a couple of years, I even flipped back and forth, comparing the two.

With one simple approach, on BassBottom you can place your left hand on double-dots at fret two on bass strings, and place your right hand on double-dots at fret twelve on melody strings, and now the notes beneath each hand are identical across all six strings. (And this would be true whether you set up this 'BassBottom' tuning on a Chapman Stick or a Mobius Megatar instrument.)

This permits for a very clear vision in your head, and identical patterns beneath each hand, and for bass players allows you to transfer what you already know very quickly.

This is a good thing, and by taking this approach in your early learning of a two-handed tapping instrument, then it makes the transition hand independence come more quickly. At least, this has been my experience. It's not the only way to learn, but it's a 'fast results' place to begin.

And I'm particularly lucky in that I've had the experience of speaking with several hundreds of bassplayers and guitar players, and the majority of these seem to find learning the 6-string bass tuning ('BassBottom') fairly simple to learn. At least that's the feedback I get.

Of course, many people over the years have learned the 'Inverted-Fifths' tuning (including me), and when those folks wish to order an instrument set up that way, of course we build it the way they want.

Having learned both, I do have an opinion, and I feel strongly about this opinion for I've seen the 6-string bass tuning at work.
I don't think that there's anything *wrong* with tuning bass strings in fifths, and ascending the 'wrong' way; I just think that it doesn't seem very logical to me personally, and it seems to me that tuning bass strings like a bass makes for faster learning.

However, some folks feel differently, and obviously, either tuning can be used to make some great music. And for any bass-player who has the interest, I would urge you to try the two-handed approach on some specialty instrument. On a Stick, on a Megatar, on a Warr Guitar ... all of it, regardless of tuning, is really, really fun. And if you like the idea of having the bass strings in the tuning you already know, any of these instruments can be re-tuned, of course.

For those interested, here is a comparison of tunings for two-handed tapping on specialty instruments, and for those who want to hear me rant (more) about BassBottom versus Inverted-Fifths, my tongue-in-cheek Sermon on the Evils of Inverted-Fifths Tuning will go into greater detail.

Hallelujah!

[krakow9]

Hey there - I have an 8-string Chapman Stick Bass - SB8 #1784 that I am selling. It's Padauk, with Fret Rods, The Block pickups (two single-coil EMGs), and was custom-built for me in 2002. If you're still interested in touchstyle instruments this is your chance to get an official Chapman Stick for much cheaper and without having to wait for months and months or years and years while backorders are filled. Lemme know if you're seriously interested and we can talk price and I can answer whatever questions you might have.

-Jesse
(302) 668-4123
vlietkrakow@yahoo.com

[nig]

there was an sb 8 on e bay in the uk last week for £800 and I didnt have the courage to buy it, they do have a fear factor attached to them because a. they are expensive and b. you doubt yourself as to weather you would master one, ive wanted one since I heard tony levin with crimson and gabriel in the late 70's im now 49 and still cant push the buy button...but want to, weird.

[war_n_peace]

Here's one that you can play for Free!

Click Here to Play the Virtual Chapman Stick®

I hold the keyboard Vertically when playing it

[nig]

shame its in italian, I will have a go at it , however I brought krakow9's stick , its a very challenging but different instrument to play.

[soong]

Originally Posted by war_n_peace

Here's one that you can play for Free!

Click Here to Play the Virtual Chapman Stick®

I hold the keyboard Vertically when playing it

Haha, neat little thing!

[Benjamin Strange]

Originally Posted by traktor

Because tapping instruments actually and truly do need to have a very low action in order to play well, it's not so easy to crank them out for the price of a Mexican strat. Or even a Mexican strat plus a Mexican p-bass. (Since it has six melody strings and also six bass strings and pickups and hardware and such.)

I'm going to have to balk at this statement. There is absolutely no reason that a foreign made, affordable instrument cannot be made to have a very low action. A tapping instrument should, in fact, be easier to manufacture for low action, as they are flat radius and the necks shouldn't have much relief, if at all. A MIM strat or P bass can be set up with extremely low action, just like a tapping instrument - for less than $500.

Now, I understand economy of scale plays a large part in the pricing of these instruments. I'd venture to guess that bassists outnumber Stick players 10,000 to 1, and guitarists outnumber bassists 1,000 to 1. At this point it doesn't strike me as economically feasable to contract a factory in China to whip up a cheap Stick - you generally have to order multiple hundreds (if not thousands) of these instruments at a time, and you'd probably have one hell of a time selling all of them off. I don't think we're going to see a foreign made Stick or anything similar anytime soon.

I've owned a Stick and also a Warr guitar. The Stick, I find, is a very poorly made instrument that's ridiculously overpriced for what it is (not much more than a plank of wood with strings and pickups). The Warr is a far superior instrument, but also incredibly expensive. I have built instruments in the past, and am currently making my living repairing guitars and basses (and the occasional guitarron) - and I've always had half a mind to build a tapping instrument, just to see how much it would set me back in materials and labor. Might be a fun little experiment.

[RED5]

Somebody get Rondo on the line we need a Chinese Chapman stick ASAP!

[Benjamin Strange]

Originally Posted by RED5

Somebody get Rondo on the line we need a Chinese Chapman stick ASAP!

I already asked them about this. They're not interested. Economy of scale, remember?

[evilgus]

Originally Posted by Benjamin Strange

The Stick, I find, is a very poorly made instrument that's ridiculously overpriced for what it is (not much more than a plank of wood with strings and pickups).

Sorry to hear you somehow ended up with a "bad" Stick, maybe it was mis-treated by it's previous owner? Or a very old Stick that probably had pretty basic features and was showing it's age? I definitely have to disagree with you there about the quality of Sticks in general and and I know hundreds of other Stick owners that would as well. I've owned two Sticks that were built around 5 years apart and both were top-quality instruments that I consider to be at the same level as MTD or Dingwall basses. (Especially my new graphite Stick, it is a marvel of engineering!) Yes, granted they don't have much wood (or any) in them as a nice bass or Warr Guitar, so maybe that's why you feel you weren't getting your money's worth.

Sorry if it sounds like a rant or an advertisement, but lets not forget that Sticks *are* custom, hand-made instruments that are designed for tapping from the ground up, utilise a number of specialised (patented) components and offer a large choice of custom features when ordering. All that unfortunately costs money, but even then, I don't think the price of new Sticks is out of line with similar quality custom-made basses or guitars.

Just a very happy Stick customer.

Cheers,

EG

[Benjamin Strange]

Mine had some really funky, poorly designed hardware. The nut was nothing but what seemed like screws with slots in them for the strings, the bridge was akward and difficult to set up properly, and the tone was very thin. I've played other Sticks, and I still felt that they were an incredibly poor design. They are uncomfortable to hold (that belt hook idea is simply awful) and don't really sound good. I feel like the Stick vs. a Warr was like a Danelectro vs. a PRS - the Warr is much better thought out and elegant, and feels like a real instrument as opposed to some cheap thing thrown together to meet a price point. I'm sure much of it is my own personal preference, but I find much of Emmet Chapman's designs to be rather unsensable. The NS Stick seems to be a step in the right direction, but not by much.

[hey]

Dude, you're not playing a bass. It's a totally different instrument.