Was Chicago the first "Fusion" band

[burk48237]

I was listening to CTA on the way to some accounts in western MI. and it got me thinking (a dangerous thing). When we think of early fusion usually the first thing that comes to mind is Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return to Forever, Weather Report and Bitches Brew (Miles). Well CTA was recorded in 69 (same year as Bitches Brew). It can certainly be argued that "Introduction, Beginnings, Question 67,68, Poem 58" are as "jazz" as anything on Bitches Brew. And if anything around Chicago five tunes like "Hit by Verase" and "Loneliness is Just a word" are More Jazz oriented then a vast majority of the stuff appearing on RTF and Mahavishnu Albums. I realize Blood, Sweat and Tears should also be included in this discussion. But for it to be "valid" fusion did it have to be jazz cats playing it?

It was actually an interview with Robert Lamm of Chicago that turned me on to Herbie Hancock and ultimately RTF (I saw them on the same bill). I know Chicago's latest stuff is a mixture of schlock and crap. And I do believe Seraphine's decidedly unswinging kit work (great technique- no funk) hurt them. But I think its a reasonable statement to argue that Chicago was the first real fusion band and in it's time one of the best.

[dougjwray]

Interesting question.
Blood Sweat and Tears are indeed the obvious one, but the Gary Burton Quartet with Larry Coryell on guitar also predated Chicago. Also, some claim that Cream was the first successful fusion of rock, jazz and blues. Or Hendrix's "Third Stone From the Sun", complete with guitar melody played in Wes Montgomery-style octaves and Elvin Jones-style drums by Mitch Mitchell.
All of these were pre-1969.
This will be an interesting thread... "What is jazz?!" "What is rock?!"

[page]

If you ask me , CTA resembles early 20th century classical more than anything. There is more Stravinsky and Varese in their music than Miles or Bird or anything. Though the middle of the album does have some touches of Later period Coltrane.

[DWBass]

Cold Blood and the Santana Band are from that era as well.

[tkozal]

Gary Burtons Quartet with Coryell, and Herbie Mann all came before Chicago. But they came form the jazz side, not the rock side BS&T and Chicago, along with the band Dreams were early. Dreams had Cobham and Abercrombie IIRC.

[Lazylion]

Anyone remember a horn band from L.A. called The Flock? Included Jerry Goodman on violin, before Mahavishnu. Not sure what date they started, late 60s sometime. Whatever happened to Fred Glickstein (guitar)?

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

I wouldn't consider Chicago the first fusion band, for the reasons mentioned, but they had a spot on the forefront nevertheless, despite also doing pop.

Devil's Sweet on Chicago VII (Seraphine dedicated it to Jo and Elvin Jones) and Liberation on CTA were fusion, too. A few years ago I was playing Liberation on a radio station at Burning Man and a friend came over during the guitar-bass-keys-drums jam part to ask what Cream tune that was.

[mike sancho]

Let us not forget......Chase

Bill Chase's band was an amazing band playing some very aggresive stuff especially given the time they were around.
Left us much to soon! RIP

[zac2944]

I'd have to say that there is no way to really answer the question of "who was the first fusion band?".

As far as jazz-rock fusion, Larry Coryell, Bob Moses and Jim Pepper, formed the Free Sprits in 1966. That's pretty early.

Guys like Coletrane were doing Free-Jazz stuff in the early 60's. That could be a type of jazz fusion.

[dougjwray]

Dreams' first album was released in 1970 (just after Chicago's first)...
Another band: Seatrain (first album in 1969).
Oh yeah, and Soft Machine (first album in 1968).

[JimK]

A good book on this subject is Stuart Nicholson's Jazz-Rock: A History.

I recall Nicholson fitting Chicago, BS&T, etc in the Rock-Jazz camp.
Another was The Electric Flag...supposedly, Miles dug them enough that he ended up using bassist Harvey Brooks on Bitches Brew.

Tony Williams Lifetime originated in'69. Many cite them as the '1st Fusion group'.

That said, the debut album by Chicago is great!

[SBassman]

First or not, that early Chicago material was solid gold.

[old fart voice: "yep yep yep, they don't make music like they used to"]

[page]

Tony Williams' Emergency hit the scene in 69 too, Mclaughlin and Larry Young were on fire on that one.

[Moo]

Zappa did fusiony things in the '60's.

[dougjwray]

Another one: Colosseum, a British band featuring Jack Bruce's sometime collaborators, Jon Hiseman and Dick Heckstall-Smith. First album in 1969.

[P. Aaron]

Originally Posted by SBassman4x

First or not, that early Chicago material was solid gold.

[old fart voice: "yep yep yep, they don't make music like they used to"]

This guy with the 'old' achy knees agrees with you.

[smidgley]

I certainly wouldn't call it "fusion" but the California band Spirit incorporated jazz elements with rock beginning with their first album in 1968.

[elros]

I've read that Niels-Henning Ørsted Pedersen was in a fusion band "Underground Railroad" in Copenhagen 1968-72. But I've never heard any recorded material, if there is any.

[GM60466]

How about the Electric Flag?

[bassist15]

Not sure who started Jazz-Rock but there are alot of great bands
Electric Flag
Jimi Hendrix
Soft Machine
Lifetime
BS&T
WEather Report
Dream
Chicago

Miles DAvis