Crappy "Mom and Pop" Music Store

[Spector_Ray]

First off, please excuse my crappy pics from my jittery cell phone holding hand!

This is one of 2 "mom and pop" music stores in my town. For years, I've been going round and round with these guys when it comes to bass gear or any gear for that matter. They're arrogant and seem to think the consumer knows nothing about their particular craft or likes.

The first pic is their amp section which consists of 6 combos and a GK cab. That's it!



Next is the bass rack. One side has 4 Ibanez basses. Not sure of the models and I really don't care.



On the other side of the rack is Fender/Squier. They are from left to right IIRC, a Squier Jazz, MIM Jazz, MIA Highway One P, another MIM Jazz, Squier P-5 and a Squier P-bass.



And finally in front of the rack are two more Ibanez basses.



I didn't take a pic of the guitar section because I didn't have enough memory to take pics of all the guitar inventory.

There are several problems with this company. First, it's painfully obvious that bass means absolutely nothing to these people. They also seem to think that all bassists sit in the corners of their rooms or basements and play along with their 45's on their record players(remember those?). That's why all the low wattage combos.

Second, the buyer(and I know this for a fact) thinks that Ibanez is the end all, be all in all instruments. This company is an authorized dealer for PRS, Fender, Ibanez, Jackson and ESP yet approximately 85% of their electric guitar inventory is Ibanez, 10% Fender, 4.99% PRS and .01% ESP/LTD. Oh...and a couple of Jacksons that don't register on the pie chart. As far as acoustics go, Taylor, Ovation, Ibanez and Fender are their brands. They got a huge shipment of Taylors in for Christmas and they sold ALL of them out. The Ibanez acoustics are still in stock. Do they order more Taylors? Of course not since they want to give their Ibanez stock a chance to sell! That's the official word.

When GC opened a year and a half ago, these guys puckered up so quickly, they're having to repave the parking lot in front of the store because some of it was sucked up. They ordered their inventory and most of the stuff they ordered is still there.

I know there are many locally owned stores that are good ones, but this is an excellent example of why GC is putting local shops under. And IMHO, if they don't listen to their customer base, they deserve their impending demise.

[Mon Rominee]

Yeah, it sucks that these places only carry the cheap stuff because they can't move volume big ticket items like GC, so they aren't taken seriously by real players (or manufacturers because they cannot afford the x-dollar minimum in-stock pakages to carry a particular brand), and their business model is so short sighted that that is where they stay...never innovate, never deviate.

I am not anti Mom & Pop any more than I am Pro GC, but this day and age there is no middle ground unless you specialize in one area / niche and exploit it.

I know there are all bass supercenters, and drum shops, and piano shops, and often they get it right...but it's the other shops like you showed that back into a corner and atrophy under their own blandness and indifference.

I have one of these type of shops in town...never even carry any good strings, which should be a staple of any store...and when I haggle them down to 22 bucks for a pack of GHS Boomers, they act like I'm raping them or they're doing me a wicked favor...most suckers pay 35 bucks in that store for that set...can you believe it? Now I just wait until the fam wants to hit the shoppes, and I give GC 17 bucks for the same set, and then I go to dinner.

[kevteop]

Originally Posted by Spector_Ray

This company is an authorized dealer for PRS, Fender, Ibanez, Jackson and ESP yet approximately 85% of their electric guitar inventory is Ibanez,

I remember a few years ago over here (UK), Ibanez used to offer these kinds of stores crazy credit on stock just to get their guitars all over every wall in every poxy little music shop in the country. Sounds like they're still doing the same.

[Spector_Ray]

Originally Posted by kevteop

I remember a few years ago over here (UK), Ibanez used to offer these kinds of stores crazy credit on stock just to get their guitars all over every wall in every poxy little music shop in the country. Sounds like they're still doing the same.

Oh yeah! My brother works at this store and they've dumped Ovation and are about to dump PRS in favor of Gibson. Gibson used to be really bad about their terms for becoming an authorized dealer. IIRC, a store had to agree to have no less than 80% Gibson guitars on display and have something like $800k in Gibson inventory. There is no way anybody could do that in this town but I think they've really relaxed those terms.

Originally Posted by Mon Rominee

I am not anti Mom & Pop any more than I am Pro GC, but this day and age there is no middle ground unless you specialize in one area / niche and exploit it.

True. My question is how can a company stay in business if you can't even get anyone in the door because they know from one week to the next your exact inventory? The problem about the people around here is that they like to play everything safe and aren't willing to try something different. Safe will only get you so far then it becomes predictable. It's much worse when you have potential customers with money telling you what they want and they still don't listen. What do they do then? They go to GC or other online retailers.

[Hookus]

In Austin, we have tons ofsmaller music stores, but the "I go to the super-secret-guitar shop" mentality is very much alive, and average Joe S. Songwriter here likes that M&P beatnick feel.

IMO, GC is king turd here. That is just a fact, unless you go to a specialty shop for drums or bass. They have most of the little things you could want, that smaller shops just don't inventory. They tend to have an "in-stock" attitude, which is what makes big box stores successful.

Next is the employee attitude. Most GC employees don't care if they swing you a deal. It is not like those few bucks they saved you are coming out of their pocket. For old ma and pa, though, or any small business, that is exactly where those few bucks are coming from, their bottom line. If I buy anything from Bass Emporium, I don't even ask for a deal. I will pay full price every time, because I want to support them. Their attitude, and knowledge make me want to do that.

I buy most gear online now anyway. With return policies, it is easier to order something, play with it, and if you don't like it, you are pnly out shipping. Wow. I would never order something big without making damn sure I wanted it, so shipping does not come to much for me, plus, I don't send a lot back. The only things I buy in a music store anymore are guitars and things I need right away. I go to GC, because chances are, they have that thing I need right away in stock.

[Dave Muscato]

Don't get me started. We have 6 locally owned shops here, two of which are regional chains, and no GCs or anything like that. The nicest bass you'll find in-stock is a Highway 1 Fender. Most are bass packs. There is one shop that carries Schroeder and has two cabs in stock, and two Genz-Benz heads. It's the same inventory that was there 6 months ago. I have noticed a trend in M&P stores to getting more and more toward carrying only beginner-level stuff. I think this is because beginners don't know they can buy this stuff online, and want the guidance of a music store employee to help them figure out the basic necessities. It's just specialization - it makes everybody more efficient, basic economics here.

I try to give my local shops a chance, but it's just not worth it a lot of the time. I recently went into one local shop to buy some bass strings. They didn't have the ones I wanted in stock (DR Black Beauties, 6-string set... understandable, even GC may not have those in stock), so I paid in full and they ordered them. A month later, they had still not come in, so I finally said, "Just give me my money back; I'll order them myself from juststrings.com." It cost me $8 less, including the shipping, and I had them in 3 days. Next time, I will just order them online in the first place.

Another thing - M&P stores tend to have the same inventory for a long time. That means a lot of people have played it before you buy it. They might give you a shop-worn discount, but IME, their shop-worn discount is equivalent to the MF/Sweetwater/etc new-in-box price anyway.

I want to support local business, but on anything more than ~$400 or so, IME, they just can't compete. And if they don't have it in stock, even on smaller items, they definitely can't compete with the big guys who have the online-ordering/fast-shipping/great-return-policy thing down to an art.

I hate to say this, but IMHO, if you want nice stuff, go to a niche store in a big city that can support pro bass players' needs, or shop online. Leave the M&P stores to cater to beginners who don't know they are overpaying. YMMV.

[cheezewiz]

Originally Posted by Spector_Ray

First off, please excuse my crappy pics from my jittery cell phone holding hand!

This is one of 2 "mom and pop" music stores in my town. For years, I've been going round and round with these guys when it comes to bass gear or any gear for that matter. They're arrogant and seem to think the consumer knows nothing about their particular craft or likes.

The first pic is their amp section which consists of 6 combos and a GK cab. That's it!



Next is the bass rack. One side has 4 Ibanez basses. Not sure of the models and I really don't care.



On the other side of the rack is Fender/Squier. They are from left to right IIRC, a Squier Jazz, MIM Jazz, MIA Highway One P, another MIM Jazz, Squier P-5 and a Squier P-bass.



And finally in front of the rack are two more Ibanez basses.



I didn't take a pic of the guitar section because I didn't have enough memory to take pics of all the guitar inventory.

There are several problems with this company. First, it's painfully obvious that bass means absolutely nothing to these people. They also seem to think that all bassists sit in the corners of their rooms or basements and play along with their 45's on their record players(remember those?). That's why all the low wattage combos.

Second, the buyer(and I know this for a fact) thinks that Ibanez is the end all, be all in all instruments. This company is an authorized dealer for PRS, Fender, Ibanez, Jackson and ESP yet approximately 85% of their electric guitar inventory is Ibanez, 10% Fender, 4.99% PRS and .01% ESP/LTD. Oh...and a couple of Jacksons that don't register on the pie chart. As far as acoustics go, Taylor, Ovation, Ibanez and Fender are their brands. They got a huge shipment of Taylors in for Christmas and they sold ALL of them out. The Ibanez acoustics are still in stock. Do they order more Taylors? Of course not since they want to give their Ibanez stock a chance to sell! That's the official word.

When GC opened a year and a half ago, these guys puckered up so quickly, they're having to repave the parking lot in front of the store because some of it was sucked up. They ordered their inventory and most of the stuff they ordered is still there.

I know there are many locally owned stores that are good ones, but this is an excellent example of why GC is putting local shops under. And IMHO, if they don't listen to their customer base, they deserve their impending demise.

If you dislike the store that much, I can't imagine why you go in there and argue with the staff. It seems kind of weird to bother to go in there, take pics, and make a long post about it.

You want them to carry all sort of high dollar basses and amplification, but you know, they have to PAY for them before they sit on the sales floor. I'd assume they don't have the cash flow to do that. I'm wondering what else is going on between you and this store that you left out of your story.

[rrr_o_bbb]

I understand your frustration, but in my opinion GC is just the same only a crap pile 1000 times bigger. Just be thankful you have online shopping available...as mentioned above, juststrings.com carries more sets than you will find in any megastore. Between ebay and the well known specialty bass shops online, bass shopping is no problem. The last bass purchase I made hands-on from a local store was about 10 years ago...I've bought and sold over 12 basses online since, all pleasant experiences and no losses on used ones I bought and later resold (minus shipping, and a couple dollars gained here and a couple dollars lost there)

[Dave Muscato]

rrr_o_bbb, I wish I could say the same. I bought what I thought was a brand-new Spector 5-string NS-5CRFM for $1600 IIRC from a local shop. I had it for six days, played in through my rig, compared it to my Variax, and decided it just wasn't for me. The store wouldn't take it back. I tried to sell it online, and found out that the CRFM models had been discontinued several years ago!? - I don't know what this bass was doing in this shop; it must have been sitting in storage or something (it was definitely new, still had plastic peels on it, original Spector tagging, etc). Anyway, I was able to sell it, 2 weeks after I paid $1600 + tax for it, on eBay for ~$800 net. I don't shop at that store anymore. As much as we rip on them, that would *never* happen at Guitar Center.

[thumbplucker]

now.. in defense of the mom and pop shops..
1: they are small = small buying power,, why not bring the expensive stuff in?? simple,, they can't afford to have that kind of stock,, it's all about turns in business,, and 'good' bass that sits for over 6 months is money lost.. what they probably have to pay for the unit (ie their wholesale price) is what box stores (ie GC) retail them for,, so in order to sell em,, they have to practically give them away.. not worth it by any means,, especially when you'll have someone come and complain about the price yadda yadda yadda..
2: stores will stock what sells, AND what deals they can get,, if ibanez sells (ie volume =lower wholesale) then ibanez gets the nod. Sorta a catch 22 isn't it?
3: The taylors they got in,, most likely they got a killer deal on em' for xmas,, and having to order more now is way too much.. companies do that all the time,,,

We have a mom and pop store around here,, (actually two,, we're small town ontario),,, they don't stock any decent stuff.. BUT.. can I order it??? yes,,, and because I've dealt with them on an ongoing basis,, I get some decent discounts on my special orders,, (remember,, they aren't stocking,, just in one door and out the other), this includes basses, amps, cases...

I have a very good working relationship with the one store owner,, I know he'll treat me right, and he knows I'll be back...

in short,, take it easy on the mom and pop,,, and remember,, there's way more guitard shredder/wannabe's then there is bass players... they gotta go where the money is...

ymmv

[Dave Muscato]

Don't get me wrong; I order stuff from local M&Ps all the time, and they get all my repairs, preventive maintenance, and set-ups etc business. I will generally order something locally if they can match MF price. I have great relationships with my local shops - my brother used to manage one here for 5 years, before he started his own (non-music-related) business, and I worked at another one, teaching guitar, for about a year. They treat me right and always give me discounts, such as eating the tax, without me even asking, and I make it up to them by paying in cash (instead of using a credit card) and buying a bit more gear than I need But for many types of transactions, online shopping has got M&Ps by the short 'n curlies.

[Mon Rominee]

I'll start taking it easy on the Mom and Pop shops when they stop thinking like Mom and Pop shops.

If they do not have the buying power, then they should stop being stupid thinking they need to cover all bases of what they presume a music store needs to carry simply by definition and become a smarter store by being a real caterer to real musician's needs.

You don't have to have XXXXX and X to "be" a music store. Instead of selling 5 crappy drumkits just to say "yeah, we have drumkits", stock a great selection of cymbals, hardware and heads / sticks. Instead of 10 crappy basses and 15 crappy guitars, sell 5 or six real decent yet not so high profile examples of each, and worry more about accessories to bring the peopl in the door to get their needs and "discover" these new brands of real instruments. Don't worry about having crappy PA systems just to cover floor space.

Change your business model. Adapt. Don't cower and blame the "oooh, big evil box stores like GC because they do it better"

They DON'T do it better. they just have more buying power for more stuff...but if they "did it so right", they would not have been bought out recently by an investor group to turn things around. GC isn't the end all be all of all gear, sure they have alot of stuff, but they don't really specialize in anything more than simply, well, having alot of stuff...

If a Mom and Pop were to examine a wide section of what is "missing" in these chain stores (read: having all strings and accessories anyone would need, a real, competent repair service, excellent lesson tutors, a full school band selection) and exploit thattype of stuff , as well as fostering a sense of community amongst the musical community in that wide area, they could garner a reputation and build on THAT and survuve and, in a good gamble, thrive. But no. Too many of these shops rely on excuses for their demise instead of changing and becoming that much better.

[Spector_Ray]

Originally Posted by cheezewiz

If you dislike the store that much, I can't imagine why you go in there and argue with the staff. It seems kind of weird to bother to go in there, take pics, and make a long post about it.

You want them to carry all sort of high dollar basses and amplification, but you know, they have to PAY for them before they sit on the sales floor. I'd assume they don't have the cash flow to do that. I'm wondering what else is going on between you and this store that you left out of your story.

You obviously didn't read or understand the post very well. I never said I wanted all kinds of high dollar equipment. And I never said I argued with them and I'm sorry that was the insinuation. My point is that they will not even entertain the idea of having a variety of product. They also deal with orchestra and band instruments and merchandise so they have that going for them. As I stated earlier, my brother is employed by them and they're all over the sales staff for the lack of sales. The pics are just to show why nothing is selling. There is nothing to sell!

My other point, again is that the buyer will not buy much of anything but Ibanez and Fender as far as instruments go. They are an authorized dealer for ESP, but there are no basses.
They're an established regional chain so the have the capital. They're also an enigma because they have shown the desire to provide equipment for musicians, but they don't have the knowledge of the ever changing music scene and musician's taste. They obviously don't know a thing about the needs of bassists and they won't listen to suggestions either.

The reason I visit this place is because I like to try to keep my money locally. I do a lot of internet business simply because I can't get some merchandise here. For example, if this business would carry DR strings, I'd buy them here, but they don't and they won't. Why? Because the buyer I've been speaking to likes GHS. Now that's not the only brand they carry, but they don't carry anything I'll buy. I'm not the only person who has a problem with them.

[neurotictim]

Meh. As a musician, I can understand the frustration for the over-priced, under-stocked inventory. As a businessman, I can understand stocking what sells and leaving the "real musicians" to find their own way.

The "Mom & Pop" stores I go to have competent staff, experienced techs and teachers, and a really laid-back vibe. They don't have the high-dollar merch because statistically so few people are interested in that. In my experience with music store service, you have a hundred people that come in and play with the $1600 Warwick, 20 of whom end up buying an Epi Goth or Squier P, and 1 that *might* go ahead and pick up the W, but he/she has to go research them and see what they're going for on eBay and TB, first.

A dozen $200 Squiers sell faster than one relic'd Jaco, and that's pure business. Same deal with Ernie Ball Slinkies and Ken Smiths/Fodera/top-dollar strings. I also know that two of the local "M&P" stores have a back room where they keep the good stuff, for the occasional professional with $$$ to spend.

The only way to change that is by encouraging all your friends with high-dollar tastes and budgets to shop there. How many $1K+ cabs, heads, or basses do you think you could sell? There really aren't that many of us out there willing to part with that much money, and the store's stock reflects that.

*Just read your last post*

Sounds like the owner of this local shop is an idiot. Maybe you should just take your money and spend it locally somewhere else, if he's that stubborn about the brands he carries.

[Mon Rominee]

Originally Posted by neurotictim

The only way to change that is by encouraging all your friends with high-dollar tastes and budgets to shop there. How many $1K+ cabs, heads, or basses do you think you could sell? There really aren't that many of us out there willing to part with that much money, and the store's stock reflects that.

And that's the rub. The mentailty in this type of e-commerce world with easy buy / money back guaranteesfree shipping etc, you're not even gonna try to compete on that level...which is exactly WHY you should exploit on a local level what specialty shops like JustStrings.com do online, with the added benefit of again fostering a sense of community with area musicians, take a risk, try to win back those people who are so jaded as to simply buy online...make your shop a destination, a sure fire, gonna have the accessories I need last-minute destination. Do interesting in-store clinics with top area pros... Change your hours to reflect when a musician in a bind might need you. Word would spread real fast too.

[redstrand]

They don't stock it because the bass doesn't sell as much as a 6 string...look at GC...8 to 10x the guitat to bass stock. Same ratio for the Mom and Pop's...I go to Killer Vintage here in STL, granted Dave stocks high end equipment...the ratio of guitars to basses is 12 to 1. He stocks what sells. Fazio's, Swing City, Eddie's...same story. Granted my examples have "cooler" stuff...they still need lower end stuff to make money. Bread and butter gets you thorugh the lean times. ChiChi stuff gets you fat during the best of times.

Maybe they don't know their market well enough. The Eureka Music store supplies stuff to the kids at my school...not much of a bass selection like your store there. But he makes his money from lessons. There are a lot of things that make a store work.

Maybe if you diplomatically approached them and showed them what other brands, such as ESP would help their bottom line...they will listen. Believe me, I did it for a store here and we became fast friends.

I just don't shop at some of the stores around here because they only cater to 10-20 year olds. Bought my squier which is long since gone from a place to remain nameless. The amp went bye bye too. they just wanted a sale. Looking back I should have asked more questions. Seeing the store you posted reminds of that store which I won't go back to.

If it don't have the right vibe...exit stage left and get to someone who does!

[unclejam]

i like My Local Non GC Music Shop(ala Zoo Music)

Great Bass Section(bass Land)
Great drums
Great Guitars And Great Staff

[Nappa]

For those complaining about GC, at least you have one! We only have 2 music stores worth mentioning. Both are Mom and Pop stores, so they can charge whatever they want.

[embellisher]

I live in a very small town that has one local music store. It used to be an independent. They carried a lot of cheap stuff, but had a few Fenders, nicer Ibanez, and a couple of Taylor and Martin acoustics. They were a decent mom & pop shop for a town of 6500.

Late last year, they were bought by a small regional chain.

Now all they have is Indonesian and Chinese instruments, and every one of them have a 'Do not touch!' sign on them.

I wanted to order my son a trombone mute, at first, they didn't even have a clue what I was talking about. Finally, they found one in a catalog, and quoted me the list price. I told them that I don't pay list price for ANY musical equipment, never have, never will. They told me that they only sell at list price, except for strings.

They have this 'awesome deal' on bass strings. 10% off of list!!! If I buy 2 sets, I get 15% off of list.

I informed them that I have always gotten bass strings either 40% off if I buy one set, or two for one. Except for stuff like DR and TI. They told me that NOBODY sells bass strings 2 for 1. I guess I haven't bought bass strings at 50 other stores over the years that did sell them 2 for 1.

Oh, and guitar strings, which in Dallas, most of the time, I could get either 60% off of list or 3 for 1 (except for Elixirs) are 20% off, unless you buy 2 sets, and then it is 25% off.

Make me feel welcome, and give me a decent deal, while allowing yourself a decent profit, you will get my business.

Put 'Do not touch' signs on all of your $150 Chinese instruments and charge me list price for accessories, nope, you won't get a dime from me.

[embellisher]

Originally Posted by unclejam

i like My Local Non GC Music Shop(ala Zoo Music)

Great Bass Section(bass Land)
Great drums
Great Guitars And Great Staff

Zoo is a very cool place!