the decline of church music in the last 100+ years.

[jonathan_matos5]

it seems pretty drastic,if you do a side by side comparison, but church music used to be on the cutting edge and composed and performed by masters of the art. now church music has gotten fairly boring with I V IV chord progressions in E, A, C, D, and G. you would thing that people would put more effort in writing songs dedicated to God.

anybody else notice this sad trend? what is next back to chants without melody?

[DistantTremor]

Originally Posted by jonathan_matos5

it seems pretty drastic,if you do a side by side comparison, but church music used to be on the cutting edge and composed and performed by masters of the art. now church music has gotten fairly boring with I V IV chord progressions in E, A, C, D, and G. you would thing that people would put more effort in writing songs dedicated to God.

anybody else notice this sad trend? what is next back to chants without melody?

I can see where you're coming from. I go to my late service instead of my early one mainly because the music in the late service is sung by the gathering and the choir, and played by the organist. It's nothing short of glorious. And every now and then a classical musician will play after the late service.

In the early service, it's christian pop music.

With the christian pop music, the intention and moral value is beautiful, but to be honest, I'm tired of it too.

[JohnL]

Lucky you. I WISH we had something contemporary to get tired of. I'm tired of southern gospel, orchestra pieces that all sound like a John Wayne western soundtrack, and people clapping on the 1 and 3!

[DistantTremor]

Originally Posted by JohnL

Lucky you. I WISH we had something contemporary to get tired of. I'm tired of southern gospel, orchestra pieces that all sound like a John Wayne western soundtrack, and people clapping on the 1 and 3!

Hey, I like a little gospel. Nothing like enjoying God's Groove every now and then.

[jonathan_matos5]

Originally Posted by JohnL

Lucky you. I WISH we had something contemporary to get tired of. I'm tired of southern gospel, orchestra pieces that all sound like a John Wayne western soundtrack, and people clapping on the 1 and 3!

play a couple bars of 5/4 and they will reset to 2 and 4 its actually pretty cool

yeah southern gospel is also boring. im just ready to play something original or something more challenging

[thesteve]

I agree that church music has gotten simpler...but music overall has gotten simpler. I'm not surprised that a market for the masses has followed trend.

[Philbiker]

I can say that this is not true in the Catholic Church. I play guitar often and bass regularly in my church; we play both traditional ancient and old hymns as well as more contemporary stuff. The chord progressions, variations, etc. I find to be a lot of fun. For more protestant/evangelical stuff, check out some Rich Mullens, Phil Keaggy, and some others. I have two brothers who write music for their churches and their stuff is fantastic.

[dangnewt]

Great observation.

A couple of theories for what it is worth.

Follow the money -
The great composers probably wrote great church music because it was one of the few places that they could paid for their work. Today, most (many?) of the best composers are writing for the secular market.

Only the best survived -
There were a ton of crappy songs written back in the day; but they didn't stand the test of time; so they are forgotten and only the good ones are still sung. Maybe "Amazing Grace" was the only decent hymn to come out of the 1770's and the rest never made it to 1800!

You seldom hear popular songs with great spiritual content written by genius composers in a church -
George Harrison's My Sweet Lord for example, I doubt my Methodist church could deal with the Hare Krishas in the chorus. Still a beautiful song.

Great songs are being written now, but it hasn't been long enough for us to figure out which one they are -
Two of my favorites from the last century are "Take My Bread" a simple 60's folk song and "Precious Lord, Take My Hand" written in the 30's by Thomas A. Dorsey (not the Big Band leader) although in support of your point the music is from the 1800's. I am sure that in 50 years some (but not all )of the contemporary Christian hymns will be standards.

Today's songs are written to be played and sung by amateurs - With apologies to all the professional bassists who play in churches whether paid or unpaid, simpler songs are easier for non-pros (like me) to play and for the congregation to sing. They are written with participation in mind rather than performance.

[PocketGroove82]

Ummm...I take it the OP didn't see the gospel group at the grammys last night.
INCREDIBLE. Personally, I think modern gospel is great, especially in the rhythm section.
So, What do you want to hear in church, Handel's Hallelujah Chorus?....Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring?

Keep in mind that churchs are, and have been, businesses for a very long time, and music is one of the ways the get people to come back each Sunday. They are going to play what keeps people coming back, which usually is music from this century.

[jonathan_matos5]

Originally Posted by PocketGroove82

Ummm...I take it the OP didn't see the gospel group at the grammys last night.
INCREDIBLE. Personally, I think modern gospel is great, especially in the rhythm section.
So, What do you want to hear in church, Handel's Hallelujah Chorus?....Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring?

Keep in mind that churchs are, and have been, businesses for a very long time, and music is one of the ways the get people to come back each Sunday. They are going to play what keeps people coming back, which usually is music from this century.

i skipped the grammys i dont like award shows

i dig a good gospel choir but they are one of the exceptions to my observation.

[Philbiker]

Originally Posted by dangnewt

You seldom hear popular songs with great spiritual content written by genius composers in a church -
George Harrison's My Sweet Lord for example, I doubt my Methodist church could deal with the Hare Krishas in the chorus. Still a beautiful song.

Except for the little detail that it was lifted from "He's So Fine" by The Chiffons......

[dangnewt]

Originally Posted by Philbiker

Except for the little detail that it was lifted from "He's So Fine" by The Chiffons......

Good point - I didn't remember the suit, but you are correct.

A great melody by Ronnie Mack changed a bit to fit new lyrics by George. Who knows how many more great songs Mack would have written if he hadn't died of cancer at such a young age?

[iamlowsound]

While agree with you, you are focusing on the wrong thing. In modern worship music, the focus is on the lyrics, not the instrumentation. For examples of this look at Hillsong's "shout unto God", the entire song has two chords in it, but the lyrics are so powerful you don't even notice. Also, I like to be able to work with a song and make it fit and mesh with the individual worship team, this is much easier to do with a simple song in 4/4 than some technical riff based song in 11/8. Worship songs aren't meant to be played exactly like they are on the cd, they are meant to be expanded on. In fact, most of the songs that we play at church I have never even heard on cd.

lowsound

[peter G]

Originally Posted by dangnewt

Today's songs are written to be played and sung by amateurs - With apologies to all the professional bassists who play in churches whether paid or unpaid, simpler songs are easier for non-pros (like me) to play and for the congregation to sing. They are written with participation in mind rather than performance.

This sounds like a winning answer to me.


Praise music is simple because the focus is on congregational participation not the musicians. People just aren't as musically savvy as the used to be, blame the influx of rock/pop music in our culture.

Almost all the stuff we do as a praise band is done in the key of E,F & G cause it's easier for people to sing.

[justabass]

Not at my church. I have to shed pretty hard every week. The director is typically calling Marvin Sapp, Youthful Praise, Tye Tribett, Kirk Franklin etc...Some really challenging stuff. But thats just my experience.

[thesteve]

Originally Posted by peter G

This sounds like a winning answer to me.


Praise music is simple because the focus is on congregational participation not the musicians. People just aren't as musically savvy as the used to be, blame the influx of rock/pop music in our culture.

Almost all the stuff we do as a praise band is done in the key of E,F & G cause it's easier for people to sing.

Additionally, traditional church music is played on pianos and organs but the modern church is using modern musical instrumentation. This doesn't mean that the music has to be simpler persay, but because piano is generally taught classically, and other instruments aren't, I'd venture that it's easier to find one very talented pianist/organist than it is to find a guitarist (or two), bassist, drummer and vocal team that can match the pianist's talent.

[ADbassman]

Originally Posted by jonathan_matos5

what is next back to chants without melody?

Rap?

[rfclef]

Originally Posted by jonathan_matos5

it seems pretty drastic,if you do a side by side comparison, but church music used to be on the cutting edge and composed and performed by masters of the art. now church music has gotten fairly boring with I V IV chord progressions in E, A, C, D, and G. you would thing that people would put more effort in writing songs dedicated to God.

anybody else notice this sad trend? what is next back to chants without melody?

(rips apart the song he was writing tonight)

[joninjapan]

but it's not really about the music, is it?

[manicbassman]

Originally Posted by dangnewt

You seldom hear popular songs with great spiritual content written by genius composers in a church -
George Harrison's My Sweet Lord for example, I doubt my Methodist church could deal with the Hare Krishas in the chorus. Still a beautiful song.

you know you can replace all those Hare Krishnas and other indian phrases with Hallelujahs instead... fits just as well...

here's some lyrics:

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/g/george+..._20059071.html

just use Hallelujah everywhere in the brackets where you don't see an "aaaah" or "hallelujah" already...