Define: Progressive

[IconBasser]

so, what do you guys say progressive rock is? My dad has always defined it as Rush and Yes. I've heard Dream Theater called prog, as well as Symphony X, Dark Moor, and NightWish.

so, what makes a prog band? I've always figured it has: keyboards and synth, technical music, and lotsa solos


What say you?

[Phalex]

I've always defined Yes and Genesis (The old Genesis, when they were good) as Art-Rock. Not sure if they just changed the name or not. Hmmmm......

[Phantopeth]

I've always thrown that 'prog' label towards group that write technically complex music. Be it odd time signatures, dextrous riffing, or interesting layering.

Come to think of it, I like Art-Rock for every band I think of as prog as well (substitute metal for rock when necessary).

[StanFan]

I think prog and progressive are 2 different things. I think labelling a band "progressive" should be used for artists who are constantly trying to reinvent themselves. Not a label that should be given to bands trying to be the next Yes or Genesis.

[gottawalk]

"Progressive" has been a hard term to nail down. Sort of like, what is "avante-garde", or trying to define "punk", "new wave", or "new age" music. To me it's a band that is playing in a specific genre that takes that sound and style to a next level of writing and style. I guess that I'd agree with your dad about Yes, and Rush. (Genesis, too). The difference between you and him is that "progressive" will also be generational. The bands that you will see as "progressive" will be different than him since you are comparing them to more current bands of today, as oppposed to him comparing to the current bands of his youth. The trend moves on and the "progressive" bands change with the times and listeners. That probably doesn't help a lot, but suffice it to say, you're both probably right!

[Sarbecue Boss]

The only criteria for a band to prog for me is pushing the boundries of what musically is acceptable

[tycobb73]

insurance rock

[Spector_Ray]

Originally Posted by gottawalk

"Progressive" has been a hard term to nail down. Sort of like, what is "avante-garde", or trying to define "punk", "new wave", or "new age" music. To me it's a band that is playing in a specific genre that takes that sound and style to a next level of writing and style. I guess that I'd agree with your dad about Yes, and Rush. (Genesis, too). The difference between you and him is that "progressive" will also be generational. The bands that you will see as "progressive" will be different than him since you are comparing them to more current bands of today, as oppposed to him comparing to the current bands of his youth. The trend moves on and the "progressive" bands change with the times and listeners. That probably doesn't help a lot, but suffice it to say, you're both probably right!

I would agree with that and just saying progressive is using an extremely broad brush. Genesis and Yes are definitely progressive rock. Then you get into the progressive metal sphere with Symphony X and Dream Theater. I think it's used to describe complex music within a genre.

But then again a band like King's X comes along and they have some uniqe, if not complex music and have been described as heavy metal and progressive even thought they're neither.

[Matt Till]

Originally Posted by StanFan

I think prog and progressive are 2 different things. I think labelling a band "progressive" should be used for artists who are constantly trying to reinvent themselves. Not a label that should be given to bands trying to be the next Yes or Genesis.

I agree with this 100%

Everytime I hear a band call themselves "prog" it means they are trying to sound like 70s prog bands, who did progress music further. The only thing worse are prog bands who try to sound exactly like dream theater: or even worse than worse: Dream Theater!!!

[Nighthawk551]

To me, "progressive" music is divided into two categories: Technical and Stylistic.

Technical progressive is defined as music that has very complex structure. It employs odd time signatures, weird chords, etc. There aren't a whole lot of purely technical progressive bands out there.

Stylistic progressive covers a wider range of music. To me, a band can be considered progressive within their genre. For example, Queen is very different than most rock bands, but their music isn't particularly technical. The Who is another great example. Their rock operas and use of horns and synthesizers don't exactly fit in with other rock bands like AC/DC or Aerosmith. There are bands that are very stylistic, or avante-garde as they are commonly called. Pink Floyd is a prime example. Even some modern punk bands can be considered "progressive punk." Relient K employs a lot of piano and more recently, orchestral instruments along with rock-out distorted guitars. Stylistic progressive basically follows the definition of the word progressive: moving forward, differing, changing. These bands aren't afraid to be different than others in their respective genres.

Then, there is the marriage of the two. This is what most people consider "prog rock." Rush, Yes, Genesis, ELP, King Crimson and the like. Their songs are amazingly styled, yet technical at the same time.

I'm a very big progressive music fan, so I have made my own definition over time . In the way I broaden things by adding "stylistic" progressive music, you can tell what I like to listen to. I'm not a big fan of "simpleton" rock music, such as AC/DC, Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin, and ZZ Top. Simple bluesy riffs and lyrics about girls, drinking, and sex don't do it for me .

[gottawalk]

Originally Posted by Spector_Ray

I would agree with that and just saying progressive is using an extremely broad brush. Genesis and Yes are definitely progressive rock. Then you get into the progressive metal sphere with Symphony X and Dream Theater. I think it's used to describe complex music within a genre.

But then again a band like King's X comes along and they have some uniqe, if not complex music and have been described as heavy metal and progressive even thought they're neither.

I think the thing with bands such as King's X is that since they're unique, it's hard to catagorize them and so they get more than one label. It's quite possible that they (in general, "they", not necessarily King's X), could be starting a new style and can't be catagorized, yet...

[IconBasser]

I've sorta thought prog metal & symphonic power metal were very closely related, which is why I started this thread, I really wanna know which ones which.


so it's established that Symphony X is prog, what NightWish? Power metal or Prog?

[Jazz Ad]

Progressive :
- Wishing to push the boundaries of a style further away through sonic, structural, harmonic and melodic diversity or complexity.
- Linking different parts together to form the structure of a song in a progressive, linear (rather than circular) way.
You need both to be called a progressive band IMHO.

I'd call Nightwish a pop metal band but that's just me.

[IconBasser]

why, because it has a female lead vocalist? If that's you're reasoning, do you call The Distillers pop? How about Otep?

[Jazz Ad]

Rather because they play typical verse/chorus/verse/bridge short songs with pretty simple harmonies and classic tone.
There isn't really any progressive element in what they play.

[gottawalk]

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

Progressive :
- Wishing to push the boundaries of a style further away through sonic, structural, harmonic and melodic diversity or complexity.
- Linking different parts together to form the structure of a song in a progressive, linear (rather than circular) way.
You need both to be called a progressive band IMHO.

I'd call Nightwish a pop metal band but that's just me.

Originally Posted by IconBasser

why, because it has a female lead vocalist? If that's you're reasoning, do you call The Distillers pop? How about Otep?

uh....WHERE in Jazz Ad's statement did he even mention at all anything about female vocalists? Seems that you're making that distinction; the reasoning is yours, not his...

[IconBasser]

Ok ok, sorry, yes, I'm jumping at shadows.