Definition of a Bass Player

[Neb Maro]

Now, I just started bass. Therefore, I am not an authority on the subject. However, as I have been reading threads, studying music videos, studying techniques and practicing, I've begun to develop some ideas on what a bass player should do/be.

1. A bass player SHOULD be allowed to solo BUT...
He or She first should be able to create and/or hold down the groove. The primary function of the bass it seems is to carry the rhythm; to provide foundation along with drummer for the band.
2. A bass player should have the second best, if not the best rhythm and ability to count in the group (The drummer preferably having the best rhythm and ability to count)
If the drummer is off, the bassist is there to help him or her out. If the singer and guitarists want to go all wild and crazy and not worry about timing, the bass player is there to rein them in.
3. A bass player should be rock solid in whatever he or she does. Fudging is inevitiable, and I don't know how accurate thumping and popping is, but the bass player along with the drummer provides the foundation for the song. Yes, you can play songs without bass, but usually, bass makes better. Therefore, the bass has an important job. Foundation. Sure, soloing is nice. I would like to do it myself from time to time, but I know my place. That is being the rock solid foundation.
4. You see that I keep mentioning the drummer. Well, it's logical as the two of you make up the rhythm group. Bassists should probably have the best relationships with the drummer and then the rhythm guitar. Unless you're doing some avant-garde music or some version of funky jazz, most music has a definite beat to it. If you don't know how your drummer works, how are you really going to lock down the groove with him or her?
5. Back to the low end and the foundation stuff. Playing bass is, in my opinion, for the most part a humble job. Sure you can mention Flea and his noticeable style of play, but I don't think I've ever heard him overpower anyone in the rest of RHCP. As funky as he gets, he's always supporting the group. I think that takes a measure of humility. It takes pride in what you do too. I'm proud to play on the low end.
6. A bass player should probably know the music he or she is playing front to back. I really don't know how important this is as I have never been in a gig where I didn't have music to follow. Still, if you really want to be good, why would you not work as hard as you could to know exactly the music you are playing?
7. Bass should be FUN. Shoot, even the simple little groove can be fun if the bassist put himself or herself into it. Why play an instrument you're not having fun with? Bass is a part of so many styles of music that it is virtually impossible not to find a style to have a killer time with. There are also, it seems, so many different ways to play the beast. Man, I could probably play and study for a lifetime and not use up the full potential of the instrument.

Well, I've exhausted ideas for now. Remember, theis is my opinion. I'm not trying to pass it off as an iron clad mandate or fact. So, flamers...better have something smart to say. Anyone else who might want to add on, support or critique what I've written, feel free.

[superjesus]

sounds good.

but most importantly, a bass player must be a good listener.

[Dave]

I agree 100% with all 7 points. Except 1, I dont care if any other bass players solo, but Im not too fond of doing it. I much more enjoy grooving.

[bigfatbass]

a bass player must be a good listener

Beat me to it! Let the melody be your guide, too, not just the drummer.

[Neb Maro]

I knew I missed something.
As said in the movie "The Power of One", "Absoloodle."
The bass player SHOULD be a good listener.
Hey, look at that! I used humility in responding. I deserve a pat on the back.

[Bottom Feeder]

OK, how about Pat Buchanan?

[Neb Maro]

Originally Posted by Bottom Feeder

OK, how about Pat Buchanan?

Excuse the ignorance, but who?

[Bass_Man61]

[quote=DMB]I agree 100% with all 7 points. Except 1, I dont care if any other bass players solo, but Im not too fond of doing it. I much more enjoy grooving

Yes I agree , I much prefer the groove myself . Soloing is fine for those that like to do it and I even enjoying hearing a good bass solo , but it isnt as satisfying for me as a good tight groove .

[nig]

We (bassists) are the most important member of the band, why? because we link the drums to the music , we orchestrate or conduct from the verse to mid 8 etc... the bottom end is where the groove is, hence disco, drum and bass etc, reggae even, we drive the band and when guitarists etc solo we hold it all together, in fact we are gods...

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Someone who plays bass. That's it. It's just a musical instrument- people have associated the roles the instrument has taken in certain band contexts over its very short lifetime with the responsibilities it should takes. That's quite limiting. What is the role of the bassist in a group with a didgeridoo player and a triangle player? What is the role of the bassist in a four-piece string group playing classical music? What is the role of the bassist playing solo unaccompanied songs? What if you're in a noise band? These situations defy all the standard roles an electric bassist would take. Most popular music has a defined beat, but not most music in general. Try tapping your foot steadily to nearly any classical piece. There are still rhythms, but they are moving and allow for rubato, and attempting to groove will pretty much ruin the piece.

There are things that you can judge on what would make a good musician. Timing, knowledge, technical skill, etc. would all fall under that category. The moment you try to define what makes a good bassist (or any other particular instrument), you begin to base the instrumentalist's definiton by certain types of music that may not be at all applicable.

[iamthebassman]

I thought the line "A bass player SHOULD be allowed to solo " was a bit weird. I've never been in a band that "allowed" me to solo, if I feel like it, and it doesn't detract from the song, I just go for it. I never ask permission.

[superbassman2000]

i agree with Bryan--the bass guitar is just an instrument, and the bass player is the person who plays it--you can do whatever you want with the bass!

[Bass_Man61]

Originally Posted by Bryan R. Tyler

Someone who plays bass. That's it. It's just a musical instrument- people have associated the roles the instrument has taken in certain band contexts over its very short lifetime with the responsibilities it should takes. That's quite limiting. What is the role of the bassist in a group with a didgeridoo player and a triangle player? What is the role of the bassist in a four-piece string group playing classical music? What is the role of the bassist playing solo unaccompanied songs? What if you're in a noise band? These situations defy all the standard roles an electric bassist would take. Most popular music has a defined beat, but not most music in general. Try tapping your foot steadily to nearly any classical piece. There are still rhythms, but they are moving and allow for rubato, and attempting to groove will pretty much ruin the piece.

There are things that you can judge on what would make a good musician. Timing, knowledge, technical skill, etc. would all fall under that category. The moment you try to define what makes a good bassist (or any other particular instrument), you begin to base the instrumentalist's definiton by certain types of music that may not be at all applicable.

well in that case let me just say it this way .....In the style of music that I play and like the bass is an important factor . With that being said I have written songs that didnt require a bass , however I dont think a tastefull bass line would ruin the music

[Neb Maro]

Originally Posted by Bryan R. Tyler

Someone who plays bass. That's it. It's just a musical instrument- people have associated the roles the instrument has taken in certain band contexts over its very short lifetime with the responsibilities it should takes. That's quite limiting. What is the role of the bassist in a group with a didgeridoo player and a triangle player? What is the role of the bassist in a four-piece string group playing classical music? What is the role of the bassist playing solo unaccompanied songs? What if you're in a noise band? These situations defy all the standard roles an electric bassist would take. Most popular music has a defined beat, but not most music in general. Try tapping your foot steadily to nearly any classical piece. There are still rhythms, but they are moving and allow for rubato, and attempting to groove will pretty much ruin the piece.

There are things that you can judge on what would make a good musician. Timing, knowledge, technical skill, etc. would all fall under that category. The moment you try to define what makes a good bassist (or any other particular instrument), you begin to base the instrumentalist's definiton by certain types of music that may not be at all applicable.

You are right. The bass is just an instrument, but the person who plays it IS a bassist. If I'm riding a bike, I'm a cyclist. If I'm driving, I'm a driver. There are things I should be doing when I am employing those specific instrument. I wouldn't use a bicycle in a way it wasn't meant to be used, nor would I use a car in a way it isn't supposed to be used. That applies with bass (be it electric or upright). It was created for a specific purpose and role. I don't think that role should ever be neglected no matter what else you might to with the bass.

I don't know what a noise band is, but I think even solo bassists mix the groove into their work. Concerning classical, the bass still has a role in many cases. It is to augment the music, to bring a fullness to it. It may not be a solid, set in stone groove, but it's still there. This doesn't cover the full capabilities of the bass (be it electric or upright).

Your point about musicians is a good one. Still, I would say a musician who is playing bass is at that time a bassist and there for has a job that should be done and done well.

I don't mean to be contentious. I just wanted to show that my points are still valid. Still, I reserve the right to be wrong and I hope I may have the humility to accept when that right needs to be utilized.

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Silly Putty was originally designed to be a plastic explosive. Original intent has nothing to do with what becomes of the creation Bass isn't meant to be anything other than what the music you play dictates it to be. Musical instruments are not like bicycles- they don't come with manuals. My bass won't explode if I play the sax part of "Take Five" on it rather than the bassline. If guitar stuck with the original purpose and goal it was created for, you would never have heard a guitar solo being played. It existed as strictly a rhythm instrument for a long time- it existed in quite low regards as well. You can never gain the full potential of an instrument if you limit the ideas of what should or should not be done on it.

Think about it. What is the specific role of the piano? Or the guitar? The saxaphone? The answer is that there is no specific role for the instrument or its player other than to suit the music it is playing, and that is up to the discretion of the player. Music decides the role that an instrument takes, not the instrument. Anyone who has listened to a broad variety of music has heard piano, guitar, etc. used both rhythmically and non-rhythmically, supportive and lead, grooving and not, simple and complex, in time and out of time, melodic and atonal, etc. The only difference between those instruments and the bass guitar is that bass is very young and has mistakenly been assigned a limited role becase of the music it was assigned to. People got the idea that bass players were there to augment the music, make the rest of the band sound good, etc. That doesn't take into account that the ideas of music can be created in any form you choose. People are only now breaking past those boundaries. Many solo bass pieces I've heard are akin to pure melody (similar to the Bach cello suites) and have nothing that I would call a groove whatsoever. They are in time, but in time and grooving are two separate matters.

Here's an example. If I write a song with bass playing a lead melody, guitar playing purely rhythmic chords, and keyboard playing a bassline, then that's the role of those instruments in that song. If that is the way I wrote it and want it, then if the bassist were to start grooving, backing up the rest of the band, or locking in with the drummer, then he would have failed at his job. The role and job is the music, and the music is whatever you make it to be.

[Bryan R. Tyler]

By the way, I loved your last sentance- I need to get that printed on a t-shirt

[Neb Maro]

Originally Posted by Bryan R. Tyler

By the way, I loved your last sentance- I need to get that printed on a t-shirt

Hah! Thanks.

I haven't read through your post completely, but I will as I am sure it'll have several very well put together points. I might even need to utilize my rights. :sigh:
Still...Nice to have an intelligent poster who fully reads and synthesizes what he reads before making his reply.

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Nah, I just keep that post copied onto my computer and paste it whenever I can

[woodtick1973]

I agree with Bryan R. Tyler in that your "reserve the right to be wrong" sentence would be a cool T-shirt! My son is learning to play classical violin, and he is learning that when you play classical, each instrument has a certain place within the orchestra, concerto, etc. Now, that doesn't mean that all the instruments are so constrained to playing just one certain part of the music. You have your leads, you have your rhythms, you have your percussion, but if you listen closely to something Mozart wrote for a full orchestra, you can hear the distinct differences in how each instrument is used. A lead violinist is as much like a lead guitarist, etc. One of my favorite bassists is Les Claypool. With a band like Primus, he will lay back and play grooves (if you can call what he does "grooving" ) or he will come to the front with this line that puts the bass to the forefront and the guitar will lay back and play rhythm. Grooving is fine; there are blues lines that I play that are just the groove. But there are ways in playing blues bass that you can change just that little bit to where you're grooving, but it sounds like you're soloing. Knowing how to pop and slap comes in handy, because I've heard blues bands on an album that sound one way, but then when you see them live, the bassist changes the lines just enough, or pops and/or slaps a line rather than just play it the way it was recorded, to where you go "Whoa! That was killer!" I agree again with Bryan R. Tyler in that there is no "Right" or "Wrong" way to play bass. It just depends upon what type of music you're playing, and if the guys in the band feel it's appropriate for you to have the bass stand out, or just lay back.

[Bass_Man61]

Well Ive got to say that this thread has got me rethinking my whole style of playing . However at this point in time I still feel more comfortable with a nice tight groove than a slap and pop solo . it could be because Im not all that good at slapping and popping .