do you think that hip hop/rap/modern rnb bassists are getting the cold shoulder

[heath_the_great]

well? as the title says...personally i think thehy're getting a bad deal....they're probably the best groove orientated bass payers there are and they get bugger all mention or respect...from what ive seen..like Braylon lacy, for erykah badu, dante nolen (busta ryhmes, missy elliot, p diddy, ginuwine)

[heath_the_great]

but its the same thing with nathan east and he gets recognition beyond deserve.....not to mention doug wimbish who is mostly recognised for his work with living color, but he's played for seal, madonna, mick jagger, busta ryhmes, billy idol, paula cole and more.....

[kyo]

well...the other players dont get recognition either...they're back up, not band members.

[brianrost]

Nathan East and Doug Wimbish were around for YEARS before they started getting a high profile.

Sometimes it helps to also do something that brings you into the public eye. Lots of people know who Randy Jackson is thanks to American Idol but I bet most have no clue he's a bassist!

[heath_the_great]

Originally Posted by brianrost

Nathan East and Doug Wimbish were around for YEARS before they started getting a high profile.

everyone starts out somewhere....its not like erykah badu has only just started...she's on what? her 5th album now?..and from memory im pretty sure braylon lacy is always her man

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Originally Posted by heath_the_great

everyone starts out somewhere....its not like erykah badu has only just started...she's on what? her 5th album now?..and from memory im pretty sure braylon lacy is always her man

There's a big difference there though-Erykah Badu's first album came out in what, 1997? East and Wimbish have been in the game since the 70s-hell, Wimbish did the bassline to "Rapper's Delight" which was pretty much the first mainstream rap hit EVER.

[heath_the_great]

badu is pretty big these days so i dont see why not?..i mean you see all these bands like mudvayne who pop up and people are like whoa...ryan...he da next bass god..and its al utter bullplop.....but man....jsut becuase they in tha pop spotlight doesnt mean they should be overlooked...look at the who, and the beatles, motown even....utter pop and they're hailed like gods

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Originally Posted by heath_the_great

badu is pretty big these days so i dont see why not?..i mean you see all these bands like mudvayne who pop up and people are like whoa...ryan...he da next bass god..and its al utter bullplop.....but man....jsut becuase they in tha pop spotlight doesnt mean they should be overlooked...look at the who, and the beatles, motown even....utter pop and they're hailed like gods

You have to look at things in context though. The Beatles and the Who did have pop phases, but they were also far less 'pop' than the rest of the music that was popular at that time. They have also stood the test of time as being some of the most creative and influential bands of the time-this includes a lot of Motown musicians. Ryan Martine is popularized because within his genre he is a standout player-the few groups in Mudvayne's genre that are somewhat radio-friendly don't have bassists who play as prominent a role as he does. So when you look at Braylon Lacy for instance, has he A.) withstood the test of time to become an influential player, or B.) been a unique and prominent figure in his genre?

The answers are no and no. He may be a great player, but he isn't substantially differnt from other bassists in the same genre (like the bassists for Maxwell, Jill Scott, etc.), and he certainly hasn't been around as long as many of the other guys who recieve acclaim, even in the same genre (like Pino Palladino).

[cgworkman]

What about Darryl Jones? He's played with Sting, Madonna, Miles Davis, Rolling Stones, etc...


He's only recently become "famous". I became aware of him when he played on Miles Davis' "Decoy". Then seen him again when he played with Sting. Today, most "knowledgeable" bass players know at least who he is... Marcus Miller's start was similar also.

THIS list is longer than you think I might guess.

[willgroove2]

the thing that it seems everybody who has responded is talking around is racisim.most of the guy's,not all but most,of these guy's are black black musician's with a few exceptions do not reseive the same amount of support from the companys because they are not seen as "marketable".they don't get ad's, tour support ect as easy as a guy in a rock band with one single.i know many r&b and hip-hop musician's who have no endorsment's but are working with major act's.case in point warwick has a large ad in the back of bass player mag every month,in this ad they feacher a bassist with the exception of traa from p.o.d.they have no black bass players in the ad but if you check out what bass many r&b bassist are playing on the road warwicks are a popular choice.now warwick is a europen company so it can be reasoned that they may not be aware of this but i doubt it.it's kind of oviouse that their focus is on the rock/nu metal crowd but black guy's DO buy their stuff too.im black myself and have worked on the road with many people over the years and continue to do so,i remember the super human effort it took me to get a string endorsment when i was playing with a top ten r&b group as well as smooth jazz artist's who were signed to major lables only to find out one of my student's got a endorsment from the same company when his rock band signed a demo deal with a indi.so race is a factor in this topic i hate to say

[nonsqtr]

Originally Posted by willgroove2

the thing that it seems everybody who has responded is talking around is racisim.most of the guy's,not all but most,of these guy's are black black musician's with a few exceptions do not reseive the same amount of support from the companys because they are not seen as "marketable".they don't get ad's, tour support ect as easy as a guy in a rock band with one single....

so race is a factor in this topic i hate to say

Interesting post. My experience in the music biz lately has been exactly the opposite. Record companies want to sell records, and guess where the biggest market is these days? Yep, it's rap and latino. I know some incredibly talented singers that have been denied contracts because they're "not marketable" (translation: too old, too ugly, and too white). So, while I'll stipulate that the biz is full of personalities, and therefore by extension race is probably a factor "in some cases" when it comes to contracts and such, I have to fully disagree that racism has anything to do with the reason why the artists mentioned aren't getting "extraordinary publicity". I could rattle off a long LONG list of black bass players who've been "deemed marketable" and yet aren't anywhere near as talented as the people mentioned. And if you want to talk about black bass players in general, well, where should we start? Mingus? Stanley Clarke? What do you think makes Stanley any more marketable than Erykah?

[heath_the_great]

erykahs hot

but who said anything about racism?......who cares...its recognition i care about..not skin color

[ElMon]

For the record, Brandon Lacy is relatively new to the Badu family. Hubert Eaves IV was there before, and can be heard wielding an MTD on her live album. Has anyone heard anything from Eaves since he left?

[willgroove2]

maybe im a little confused because i thought we were talking about back-up bassist/sidemen getting more recognition not out front guy's(stanley, victor)im talking about guy's like ethan farmer who is a young bassist who over the last 3-4 year's has been on many high profile r&b gig's(brandy,TLC,christina augulara,and janet jackson)to name a few but you never see him in any ad's or discussed on the internet,if a guy worked that many high profile rock gig's he would have his own bass, string's whatever i mean he does have endorsments but in the frame of this thread he has a low profile.as far as rap and r&b being the predomenent music of the day this is true but one of the reasons is because the industry spend's less to produce it and there is a greater profit margin if it hit's,and because r&b and hip-hop produce few carear artist I.E. people who have more than two cd's, very few of them get in the position to make a real profit them self's because they don't recoup.not that this dosn't happen in rock and pop also.

[cgworkman]

Well let's not forget we're talking about bass players here. we never get the recognition that the guitar player or lead singer get.

[heath_the_great]

Originally Posted by willgroove2

im talking about guy's like ethan farmer who is a young bassist who over the last 3-4 year's has been on many high profile r&b gig's(brandy,TLC,christina augulara,and janet jackson)to name a few but you never see him in any ad's or discussed on the internet,

he's aprime example of the type of person im talking about...ive never heard of him...but you see on here, oh the bass players gotta have groove....well these are the guys that have groove coming out the wazoo, and batta bim batta boom..they get no mention which is so unfair when your standard rock bassist who only plays with a pick and plays 16th roots notes are hailed as gods....

[nonsqtr]

Well, maybe there's another point that's germane here. Recently, I've been talking with a lot of musicians who deliberately shun the publicity. They don't want any part of "stardom". All they want to do is play music. And, in truth, some of them make a lot more backing up people like Janet Jackson than they would with their own band (and this would also be true for Nathan East, whose retainer from Clapton paid for all his failed solo records). I definitely understand where these publicity-shy people are coming from, and I'm kinda that way myself. What does stardom "mean" anyway? A bunch of snotty photographers from the Weekly World News hanging around your house all the time?

[20db pad]

Originally Posted by nonsqtr

. And, in truth, some of them make a lot more backing up people like Janet Jackson than they would with their own band (and this would also be true for Nathan East, whose retainer from Clapton paid for all his failed solo records).

I'm way out of the loop - does Nathan have a solo record(s) out, failed or not? Last I heard - admittedly long ago - he didn't.

NE actually wrote a lot of good tunes with Fourplay and he also has writer's credit for the old Phil Collins/Philip Bailey hit "Easy Lover".

[willgroove2]

nathan east never made a solo record according to the info i see,but once again to stay on topic, nathan is not the kind of guy we are talking about he play's/has played on everything you can think of we are talking about guy's who back up people like alisha key's,jill scott mary j blige ect

[MacheteJames]

Originally Posted by willgroove2

the thing that it seems everybody who has responded is talking around is racisim.most of the guy's,not all but most,of these guy's are black black musician's with a few exceptions do not reseive the same amount of support from the companys because they are not seen as "marketable".they don't get ad's, tour support ect as easy as a guy in a rock band with one single.i know many r&b and hip-hop musician's who have no endorsment's but are working with major act's.case in point warwick has a large ad in the back of bass player mag every month,in this ad they feacher a bassist with the exception of traa from p.o.d.they have no black bass players in the ad but if you check out what bass many r&b bassist are playing on the road warwicks are a popular choice.now warwick is a europen company so it can be reasoned that they may not be aware of this but i doubt it.it's kind of oviouse that their focus is on the rock/nu metal crowd but black guy's DO buy their stuff too.im black myself and have worked on the road with many people over the years and continue to do so,i remember the super human effort it took me to get a string endorsment when i was playing with a top ten r&b group as well as smooth jazz artist's who were signed to major lables only to find out one of my student's got a endorsment from the same company when his rock band signed a demo deal with a indi.so race is a factor in this topic i hate to say

I've thought of this as well, but I think the truth of the matter is that these players (members of R&B, soul, and hip-hop backing bands for artists) are often pretty anonymous. In a rock band, it's about the band... the bassist will often be out on the front of the stage, singing backing vocals, and just rocking his a$$ off, while in the case of the backing player, he's just standing in the shadows at the back of the stage, next to the drummer. He's not trying to attract attention to himself, because it's all about the artist, not him. You have to bear in mind that there are really, really few hip hop/R&B/soul bands out there. I seriously can think of less than a half dozen off the top of my head that are well known (like The Roots, the Black Eyed Peas, etc). Like I said these players are all sidemen and it isn't about them, it is all about the artist, the client. I really don't think that there is a racial component to it - I think this is a situation where the only colors that matters is green, and the rock players get more exposure due to their higher profile, which means more marketing opportunities for companies looking to sell products.