Doom/sludge/shoegaze/screamo/core/folk metal/ etc.

[two fingers]

WOW! Have you looked at CL ads looking for musicians lately????? I have never seen so many sub genres in my life! And what do they even mean? And why would you call yourself some of these names? And the band names they claim as their influences????? What? I see ads all the time that look something like this.

"Doom/sludge/screamo/folk metal band looking for bass player. Our influences include Satan's Butthole, Your Mother's Chin Whiskers, Bloody Fuzzy Kittens, Purple Dookey, and Larry the Ax Murderer. Must be driven, committed, have your own car....."

I recognize a few words, and it seems like the rest is in English, but I don't understand what they are saying at all. And what's really amazing is that many of these ads I see are in fairly rural areas near me. I promise you there is no market whatsoever for pretty much anything that ends with "core" or begins with "doom" or "sludge" around here. So where do they want to play?

Now, I have never heard any of this music. I am not putting it down. I'm sure they are quite talented people and their fans are not idiots. I am clearly stating that I am fascinated and yet confused by all the sub genre names and band names that go along with them.

Anyone else lost reading CL ads these days? Remember when you either played rock, country, jazz or pop? Even the sub genres back then made sense. You could bet that if you wren't a jazz fan, you probably wouldn't get into "fusion". And if you weren't a country fan, you weren't going to like Bluegrass.

But even if I liked Metallica (and I did some years back), I have no idea if I would like doom core screamo sludge folk metal.

[Nashrakh]

Doom folk is actually a genre crossover a few bands tried (and it can sound pretty cool). Not sure what to make of screamo in there though. Maybe a wannabe singer with LSD trying to latch onto about any band or chance of success he can find.

I would actually respond to an ad like that just to check them out. My not having a car might be a put-off for them though.

Not sure what your problems with subgenres is. Yes sometimes it can get pretty ridiculous because it makes no real sense but to me it's a tendency towards diversity. Now instead of 4 genres we have 256 that all sound the same unless the band know what they're doing, which is what it all comes down to anyway.

[Hobobob]

I wouldn't respond to an ad with more than 3 sub genres - a lot of it is just kids trying to feel like their band is actually different from all the other bands in their scene that sound the same. There is occasionally a standout, but they're probably not advertising on Craigslist.

[Meddle]

Not sure what the problem is. If the band names mean nothing to you, don't apply for the gig. This is perhaps getting close to a 'modern music sucks' thread. In all honesty you can blend doom and shoegaze genres, as bands such as Cult of Luna definitely feature attributes of both genres. If you aren't willing to listen enough to either genre to understand this process than that is fair enough, I probably don't listen to your old Tower of Power and Steely Dan records enough to differentiate between them either.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by Meddle

Not sure what the problem is. If the band names mean nothing to you, don't apply for the gig. This is perhaps getting close to a 'modern music sucks' thread. In all honesty you can blend doom and shoegaze genres, as bands such as Cult of Luna definitely feature attributes of both genres. If you aren't willing to listen enough to either genre to understand this process than that is fair enough, I probably don't listen to your old Tower of Power and Steely Dan records enough to differentiate between them either.

Not at all! I have never listened to any of it. I have no idea if it "sucks". I was simply pointing out that to someone like me, the TERMINOLOGY seems like a foreign language, as do some of the band names. Nothing more. By "someone like me", yes, I do mean a bit older (I'm 41) and having somewhat traditional musical tastes for someone my age (harder stuff as a teen but more soul, funk, and "regular" rock these days). The post was more about me, and my confusion, than it was about the music itself. I can't possibly have an intelligent conversation about the music, as I have never heard any of it. In no way did I mean that you're stupid if you don't like my favorite kinds of music. And if I implied that, sorry.

[Unrepresented]

The kids today would rather think up new subgenre names than new music. Most of the stuff you listed will sound familiar to you if you've listened to a broad pallet of music for a decade or more, they just used to be called "rock"

[MetalcoreBP]

I have to say, as a fan of these genres there really is a difference between the types. It's weird and hard to explain. I like metalcore, but hate death metal. As an outsider one would not be able to tell the difference, but metal heads have very particular tastes.

Edit: I'd also point out that there are extremely talented musicians playing these types of music.

[Tractorr]

I would disagree with there not being an audience for Doom and Sludge in NC. There is a very vibrant scene there. Sourvein, Buzzoven, Weedeater, Hour of 13, Confessor are all from NC.

I don't know much about screamo but I do know that a ton of those bands are from Chapel Hill and the surrounding area so I wouldn't doubt that there is an audience for it there.

Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it isn't going on around you.

[dozicusmaximus]

Doom/Sludge = roughly based off Black Sabbath. Slow and heavy for the most part. The sludge side is more punk.

[Bloodhammer]

Originally Posted by two fingers

WOW! Have you looked at CL ads looking for musicians lately????? I have never seen so many sub genres in my life! And what do they even mean? And why would you call yourself some of these names? And the band names they claim as their influences????? What? I see ads all the time that look something like this.

"Doom/sludge/screamo/folk metal band looking for bass player. Our influences include Satan's Butthole, Your Mother's Chin Whiskers, Bloody Fuzzy Kittens, Purple Dookey, and Larry the Ax Murderer. Must be driven, committed, have your own car.......

I recognize a few words, and it seems like the rest is in English, but I don't understand what they are saying at all. And what's really amazing is that many of these ads I see are in fairly rural areas near me. I promise you there is no market whatsoever for pretty much anything that ends with "core" or begins with "doom" or "sludge" around here. So where do they want to play?

Now, I have never heard any of this music. I am not putting it down. I'm sure they are quite talented people and their fans are not idiots. I am clearly stating that I am fascinated and yet confused by all the sub genre names and band names that go along with them.

Anyone else lost reading CL ads these days? Remember when you either played rock, country, jazz or pop? Even the sub genres back then made sense. You could bet that if you wren't a jazz fan, you probably wouldn't get into "fusion". And if you weren't a country fan, you weren't going to like Bluegrass.

But even if I liked Metallica (and I did some years back), I have no idea if I would like doom core screamo sludge folk metal.

If the bold part is actually a direct copy-and-paste quote, then it's probably just someone or a few people having fun putting fake ads on CL. I don't have a FB, so I can't search that, but those bands don't exist AFAIK. Now, if you made those names up to be funny at metal kids' expense, then that's just not very nice. Satan's Butthole is a pretty good one though....

As for sub-genre haters, well, you're just gonna have to hate, because no one cares but you.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by Bloodhammer

If the bold part is actually a direct copy-and-paste quote, then it's probably just someone or a few people having fun putting fake ads on CL. I don't have a FB, so I can't search that, but those bands don't exist AFAIK. Now, if you made those names up to be funny at metal kids' expense, then that's just not very nice. Satan's Butthole is a pretty good one though....

As for sub-genre haters, well, you're just gonna have to hate, because no one cares but you.

I made the whole thing up. And it was meant to be over stated. It was not at anyone's expense because they have no idea I did it. Nobody (and no kittens) got hurt in the posting of this thread.

And I never said hate. I just said I don't get it. Why the labels? Why does everyone NEED to feel as though they are reinventing the wheel by combining so many sub genres that the result is a new one altogether? I asked questions. I did no at any point offer any negative opinions.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by Tractorr

I would disagree with there not being an audience for Doom and Sludge in NC. There is a very vibrant scene there. Sourvein, Buzzoven, Weedeater, Hour of 13, Confessor are all from NC.

I don't know much about screamo but I do know that a ton of those bands are from Chapel Hill and the surrounding area so I wouldn't doubt that there is an audience for it there.

Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean it isn't going on around you.

I am east of there. Other than a couple of college towns and a couple of military bases, there are mostly hog farms and cotton fields. It's worlds away from Chapel Hill (which is fine by me). Yes, the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area has somewhat of a music scene (as do some other areas west of there). I am not referring to that area. Perhaps if you don't know me, then you have no idea what I know. I didn't go back and read my OP, but if I recall I put something in there about being from a fairly rural area. Would you call Raleigh/Durham/Cary/Chapel Hill/Morrisville and the other half dozen towns that have merged into one metro area rural?

I was just wondering what some kids from (say) Snow Hill, Kenansville, or Scotland Neck were going to do with their new-found rawk band. Or maybe a better question would be what are the odds of there being another fan of those kinds of music in a town of 75 people that you wouldn't already know about who happens to find you through CraigsList? Best of luck to them.

At no point was I putting down anyone. I LITERALLY was pointing out MY CONFUSION at the whole thing. Please, everyone pull your panties out of your........... oh never mind. I guess you have to be really sensitive to be into that kind of stuff. That seems to be the trend, anecdotally anyway.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by dozicusmaximus

Doom/Sludge = roughly based off Black Sabbath. Slow and heavy for the most part. The sludge side is more punk.

Ah. That I get (kind of).

[JoeVictim]

Originally Posted by two fingers

Not at all! I have never listened to any of it. I have no idea if it "sucks". I was simply pointing out that to someone like me, the TERMINOLOGY seems like a foreign language, as do some of the band names. Nothing more. By "someone like me", yes, I do mean a bit older (I'm 41) and having somewhat traditional musical tastes for someone my age (harder stuff as a teen but more soul, funk, and "regular" rock these days). The post was more about me, and my confusion, than it was about the music itself. I can't possibly have an intelligent conversation about the music, as I have never heard any of it. In no way did I mean that you're stupid if you don't like my favorite kinds of music. And if I implied that, sorry.

Hold on, man. You aren't that old. C'mon, subgenres have been around. By your definition, rock could be Yes, Sex Pistols, or Led Zepplin. Subgenres were made up to be able to distiguish these bands. Doom is nothing like screamo. Doom is an extension of bands like Black Sabbath, Pentagram, Candlemass. You don't get the terminology because you more than likely listen to "safe music" (music on the airwaves from 9-5). But, you have to know that in my above example, Prog Rock, Punk Rock, and Hard Rock, are just different genres of rock. I mean, you wouldn't show up to your Zep trib looking like the ramones, would you? It's just a different vibe.


Doom/sludge/shoegaze/screamo/core/folk metal/ etc.

Most of these have little to do with each other. And anyone that lists all of that as the band they want to start, needs better direction.

Doom- as said, Sabbath Started it all.
Sludge- a take off on doom incorperating blast beats on occasion. Best example of this is Eyehategod
Shoegaze- relies on ambience, effects heavy. Like being washed away in a wall of distortion. Red Sparowes comes to mind.
Screamo- based in emo music. Alternative music of the '90s that focused on emotions and sueded the listener to feel that way too. Screamo is the same lyric concept, but with heavy chug chug breakdowns and lyrics that are often screamed, then sang. Atreyu is a perfect example.
Core is a ending to attach to an existing genre to make it seem harder edged. Screamocore may take screamo to the next level. Metalcore does the same thing. core on it's own means nothing.
folk metal is more akin to that of what Iron Maiden put out. The lyrical themes are mostly relevant to folk legends. You may have a folk metal song about a bridge troll terrorizing a town. The lyrical concept makes it folk, the back beat is usually some twin guitar stuff.

I think it's more of, you don't want to dig into it. I mean subgenres are not a crazy concept. You just have to know where the roots are coming from. That said, I am not a genre nazi. I say if it's good, then put it on the record player. Bands like Amon Amarth straddle on the lines of several genres. I think this is maybe what you are trying to explain. A Band like Amon Amarth (here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3WJX1cIuY4) could be classified into different groups. The vocal style is a bit death metal. The lyrical themes are folk, more particularly viking. So you can see how one might come up with Death Viking metal or similar.

[MetalcoreBP]

Haha. Two Fingers, you've learned that metal fans are sensitive when it comes to people not getting the whole metal scene. I really wish some of the bands had some clean vocals so people could enjoy the technical music that's around these days. Unfortunately, the screaming vocals are off putting to most people. I always tell people it's like another distorted instrument. Try giving Trivium a try. Their album "The Crusade" is all clean vocals. Very Metallica sounding. Their bass player Paolo is very good.

[dozicusmaximus]

We as humans like to put things in easily categorized boxes. If it doesn't fit move it into the appropriate box. Since there are a whole bunch of bands with a similar sound, the subgenre is created.
Just like blues... delta blues and Chicago blues. Sure they are blues, but do they sound the same? No way. But you mention the style and people know what you are talking about. If you know anything about blues.



Also I'm pretty sure Satan's Butthole has come up as a band name for my buddies and I before. hahaha

[JoeVictim]

Originally Posted by MetalcoreBP

Haha. Two Fingers, you've learned that metal fans are sensitive when it comes to people not getting the whole metal scene. I really wish some of the bands had some clean vocals so people could enjoy the technical music that's around these days. Unfortunately, the screaming vocals are off putting to most people. I always tell people it's like another distorted instrument. Try giving Trivium a try. Their album "The Crusade" is all clean vocals. Very Metallica sounding. Their bass player Paolo is very good.

Try these vocals.
http://vimeo.com/28002663

[dozicusmaximus]

^ Excellent!
And in case your computer loads vimeo super slow like mine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RE2A37Ww4gU

[two fingers]

Thanks Joe. I learned a lot from that. And though my OP was a bit satirical (something I should probably avoid in the future as many can't handle it) it was never intended to ruffle feathers. It was literal in the sense that I was asking questions (many of which you answered beautifully). Again you are correct in that I gravitate towards more traditional kinds of music (also stated in my OP).

There is only one point I take issue with. Back then, we never threw around terms like prog rock, folk metal, etc. Maybe occasionally the distinction was made between hard rock and metal. The word punk may have been thrown out on rare occasion. And articles in Rolling Stone may have delved even a bit deeper than that. I would even go so far as to say that if you played in a band that did soul, funk, and R&B, it was called a "horn band" because many of the bands playing that kind of stuff had horn sections.

And, once again, you are correct in that I really don't care to dig too deep into it. And that, after all, was kind of my point. It seems a bit overwhelming to someone coming at it from the beginning. It's kind of like saying "Go to Amazon and find a book that gives the very best description of how to grow radishes." Where would you even start? So, let's say I want to find a new band to check out. And I am into (let's just say) "hard rock". Well guess what. Nobody goes by hard rock any more. I would have to sift through a gagillion samples and/or youtube videos to get anywhere close to something I originally was looking for.

But thanks for the info. And I will admit that some of this discussion will differ based on regional slang. Perhaps in NYC or LA (or wherever you are/were from) many of the terms you mentioned were common earlier than the Mid-Atlantic states I was playing in back then.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by dozicusmaximus

We as humans like to put things in easily categorized boxes. If it doesn't fit move it into the appropriate box. Since there are a whole bunch of bands with a similar sound, the subgenre is created.
Just like blues... delta blues and Chicago blues. Sure they are blues, but do they sound the same? No way. But you mention the style and people know what you are talking about. If you know anything about blues.



Also I'm pretty sure Satan's Butthole has come up as a band name for my buddies and I before. hahaha

Thanks for that. This is kind of the road I was going down. And I have not trademarked Satan's Butthole, so have at it!