Doom/sludge/shoegaze/screamo/core/folk metal/ etc.

[JoeVictim]

Originally Posted by two fingers

Thanks Joe. I learned a lot from that. And though my OP was a bit satirical (something I should probably avoid in the future as many can't handle it) it was never intended to ruffle feathers. It was literal in the sense that I was asking questions (many of which you answered beautifully). Again you are correct in that I gravitate towards more traditional kinds of music (also stated in my OP).

There is only one point I take issue with. Back then, we never threw around terms like prog rock, folk metal, etc. Maybe occasionally the distinction was made between hard rock and metal. The word punk may have been thrown out on rare occasion. And articles in Rolling Stone may have delved even a bit deeper than that. I would even go so far as to say that if you played in a band that did soul, funk, and R&B, it was called a "horn band" because many of the bands playing that kind of stuff had horn sections.

And, once again, you are correct in that I really don't care to dig too deep into it. And that, after all, was kind of my point. It seems a bit overwhelming to someone coming at it from the beginning. It's kind of like saying "Go to Amazon and find a book that gives the very best description of how to grow radishes." Where would you even start? So, let's say I want to find a new band to check out. And I am into (let's just say) "hard rock". Well guess what. Nobody goes by hard rock any more. I would have to sift through a gagillion samples and/or youtube videos to get anywhere close to something I originally was looking for.

But thanks for the info. And I will admit that some of this discussion will differ based on regional slang. Perhaps in NYC or LA (or wherever you are/were from) many of the terms you mentioned were common earlier than the Mid-Atlantic states I was playing in back then.

I get you. Even though I don't listen to a lot of it, I try to make myself aware of what's going on. It was no longer rock, it was hard rock. No longer hard rock, metal. No longer metal it's thrash. You know where I'm going.

If you want what used to be hard rock of the 70's, stoner rock or desert rock is what you want. It's like hair metal never happened. Sorry if I came off defensive. I'm not even a "metal head". I'm more of a punk rocker. Guess I'm just more into indie label stuff. I make a point to know because you want to know what to expect if you're playing originals. Like oh, we're playing with so and so's post metal band. People instantly know. Plus, it's all been done. You have to pioneer a genre to write anything original these days

Now, if you see anything about crabcore, run as fast as you can.

[Unrepresented]

Originally Posted by Bloodhammer

As for sub-genre haters, well, you're just gonna have to hate, because no one cares but you.

I don't hate the all the subgenres. Hell, I listen to, and own albums by half the "subgenres" listed, I just think it's silly to categorize everything so tightly. Music is music.

I am a uniter.

[Tractorr]

Originally Posted by two fingers

I am east of there. Other than a couple of college towns and a couple of military bases, there are mostly hog farms and cotton fields. It's worlds away from Chapel Hill (which is fine by me). Yes, the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area has somewhat of a music scene (as do some other areas west of there). I am not referring to that area. Perhaps if you don't know me, then you have no idea what I know. I didn't go back and read my OP, but if I recall I put something in there about being from a fairly rural area. Would you call Raleigh/Durham/Cary/Chapel Hill/Morrisville and the other half dozen towns that have merged into one metro area rural?

I was just wondering what some kids from (say) Snow Hill, Kenansville, or Scotland Neck were going to do with their new-found rawk band. Or maybe a better question would be what are the odds of there being another fan of those kinds of music in a town of 75 people that you wouldn't already know about who happens to find you through CraigsList? Best of luck to them.

At no point was I putting down anyone. I LITERALLY was pointing out MY CONFUSION at the whole thing. Please, everyone pull your panties out of your........... oh never mind. I guess you have to be really sensitive to be into that kind of stuff. That seems to be the trend, anecdotally anyway.

I said there were likely Screamo bands in Chapel Hill.

The other bands I mentioned all fall somewhere in the Doom continuum. Pretty much all of the other bands I named save one are within a two hour drive of you.

You keep saying that you were confused, yet you also make the point that there is no audience for it.

A) There are some very popular doom bands in your backyard. I have driven two hours to any number of shows in my life. So yes within two hours I consider in your backyard.

B) Some of these bands are on a British label. You have to understand that part of the reason these subgenres exist is to help people identify the particular styles they are interested in. That is why a British label signs bands from NC. It doesn't matter if ten people are at their show in NC they might have tens of thousands of fans around the world (you know because of this whole internet thing that you are posting on).


I am originally from Florida (the home of death metal) and I had friends in death metal bands who on a good night would draw 70-80 people to a show there. Despite there being a ton of death metal bands there, there wasn't a huge crowd for it. Then the same bands would go play Germany and play to 25K festivals.

[ShredderMaximus]

All the different metal subgenres are definitely not outsider friendly, but neither is a astrophysics book to anyone who isn't an astrophysicist.

[beebassdude]

Originally Posted by two fingers

WOW! Have you looked at CL ads looking for musicians lately????? I have never seen so many sub genres in my life! And what do they even mean? And why would you call yourself some of these names? And the band names they claim as their influences????? What? I see ads all the time that look something like this.

"Doom/sludge/screamo/folk metal band looking for bass player. Our influences include Satan's Butthole, Your Mother's Chin Whiskers, Bloody Fuzzy Kittens, Purple Dookey, and Larry the Ax Murderer. Must be driven, committed, have your own car....."

I recognize a few words, and it seems like the rest is in English, but I don't understand what they are saying at all. And what's really amazing is that many of these ads I see are in fairly rural areas near me. I promise you there is no market whatsoever for pretty much anything that ends with "core" or begins with "doom" or "sludge" around here. So where do they want to play?

Now, I have never heard any of this music. I am not putting it down. I'm sure they are quite talented people and their fans are not idiots. I am clearly stating that I am fascinated and yet confused by all the sub genre names and band names that go along with them.

Anyone else lost reading CL ads these days? Remember when you either played rock, country, jazz or pop? Even the sub genres back then made sense. You could bet that if you wren't a jazz fan, you probably wouldn't get into "fusion". And if you weren't a country fan, you weren't going to like Bluegrass.

But even if I liked Metallica (and I did some years back), I have no idea if I would like doom core screamo sludge folk metal.

music is expanding, theres genres all over the place.

and dont kid yourself, "jazz" is about as obscure as "Doom Shoegaze Bozo-core". i cant count how many times jazz guys have told me "oh, thats not real jazz, THIS is real jazz". jazz can mean a billion different things, just like metal can. Rock and jazz both have their sub genres, the names just arent as funny lol.

[Bloodhammer]

Originally Posted by two fingers

I made the whole thing up. And it was meant to be over stated. It was not at anyone's expense because they have no idea I did it. Nobody (and no kittens) got hurt in the posting of this thread.

And I never said hate. I just said I don't get it. Why the labels? Why does everyone NEED to feel as though they are reinventing the wheel by combining so many sub genres that the result is a new one altogether? I asked questions. I did no at any point offer any negative opinions.

This comes up almost once a week here. "I don't get all the subgenre stuff lol" threads probably number in the thousands. And you seem to be answering your own question aloud while pretending to ask us. According to what you just said, it's all about people thinking they've re-invented the wheel. I appreciated the sarcasm, too, (I thought it was funny) but don't pretend you weren't being sarcastic. No jimmies rustled here, I'm just calling it like I see it.

If you really do want to understand, I suggest Ian Christe's book "The Sound of The Beast".

Originally Posted by Unrepresented

I don't hate the all the subgenres. Hell, I listen to, and own albums by half the "subgenres" listed, I just think it's silly to categorize everything so tightly. Music is music.

I am a uniter.

I get what you're saying, but think of it this way; would you rather have some weirdo, off-the-wall crazy music be called something like "Nintendo Metal" (Horse The Band), or to just be lumped into "Pop/Rock" with everything else? Those same self-serving subgenre names that annoy you could warn you away from something you know you won't like before you have to hear it - just like they will attract the people that want to hear it.

Like Hank Hill asked: "So are ya Chinese or Japanese?"
Kahn: "I'm Laotian! I'm from Laos!"

[Unrepresented]

Originally Posted by Bloodhammer

I get what you're saying, but think of it this way; would you rather have some weirdo, off-the-wall crazy music be called something like "Nintendo Metal" (Horse The Band), or to just be lumped into "Pop/Rock" with everything else? Those same self-serving subgenre names that annoy you could warn you away from something you know you won't like before you have to hear it - just like they will attract the people that want to hear it.

Like Hank Hill asked: "So are ya Chinese or Japanese?"
Kahn: "I'm Laotian! I'm from Laos!"

"Asian" includes all three though.

I appreciate the idea of designating certain micro-qualities and themes --I get that. It's a shortcut for identifying like sounding bands, but ultimately every act is going to deviate, that's why they all have names and aren't interchangeable like "Stoner rock bad 7q." It's a shortcut "Us v. Them" thing that wears out fast and stops being serviceable quickly.

I don't even know where to market my project in terms of Stoner/Hard/Alternative/Metal/Grunge/etc. genres because we're not beholden to anything besides making music we like instead of serving some imaginary boundaries.

I just call us "rock."

[Bloodhammer]

Well, it would get on my nerves if I created a Pandora Radio channel based on Judas Priest and it started playing everything from Merzbow to Nora Jones because it's all just "rock". That's all I'm saying.

[Unrepresented]

Originally Posted by Bloodhammer

Well, it would get on my nerves if I created a Pandora Radio channel based on Judas Priest and it started playing everything from Merzbow to Nora Jones because it's all just "rock". That's all I'm saying.

Clearly Pandora has more categorization going on. I have six stations. The ones that are supposed to play the Melvins don't play Norah Jones.

[dmusic148]

I always lol at 'shoegaze.'

[Mattosaur]

The use of genre tags like these are a shibboleth. The craigslist ad isn't looking for someone who might be into this stuff... it's an ad from someone who's looking for musicians who are already on the same wavelength. It's a way for people to find other member's of their tribe.

If you're a general "rock" musician, you're probably not going to be happy in a band with two people who really want to play doom metal influenced by very specific bands that you've never heard of. The fact that you don't recognize any of the labels just means none of those ads are for you.