Drums.

[wes stephenson]

So bass is a rhythm instrument. Shouldn't you play it like a drum instead of a guitar. Also, aren't drums melodic.

[bassbenj]

Originally Posted by wes stephenson

So bass is a rhythm instrument. Shouldn't you play it like a drum instead of a guitar. Also, aren't drums melodic.

Of course you can play it like a drum. Sometimes I do. (I play drums too) but a bass does MORE than drums. Drums are largely concerned with rhythm. Bass is too, but drums are mostly unpitched. Yes, I do tune my toms to a major chord as they do "sort of" have a a pitch. I don't quite agree with Buddy Rich that basses are "tuned" but drums are "tensioned". And sure open tones of conga drums have definite pitches. And LOTS of drummers talk about "playing drums melodically". But in my opinion a lot of that talk is kind of whistling in the dark and wishful thinking! Drums are not much of a melody instrument even in solo. And sure you CAN create unpitched sounds on a bass and use them musically, but a bass does so much more.

A bass certainly does deal with rhythm and one reason I love my Carvin AC50 is the piezo pickup allows me to play it very "percussively" if I so choose, but if you compare the force of a bass note with the force of a bass drum, you find the drum has more force, but the bass also has pitch. That means the bass not only works with the drumber to create a groove, but also is setting root notes of harmony. Except in rare instances drumbs don't do harmony. So a bass is pushing up out of pure rhythm into harmony. Which also allows (especially with a 6 string or 24 frets) to even push into melodic ranges as in a bass solo.

The bottom line is that a drummer for accents and rhythm creates some power, but it's more RAW power, a bass I think is even MORE powerful because it's a more subtle and EXTENDED power. In other words the bass not only has the power to groove and make every booty do the will of his right hand fingers, but also drives harmony forcing guitars into certain chords and changes. The bass just sort of sits there seemingly doing nothing spectacular, while all the time directing the whole band. Such is the power of bass.

[JxBass]

I'm confused by the OP. The bass is a rhythm instrument (yes) .... play it like a drum which is melodic (certainly can be) .... so by the definition both are percussive and melodic, so what's the question?

And if slapping, tapping, etc. aren't percussive, drum-like, and melodic then what are they?

[JimmyTheSaint]

Originally Posted by JxBass

And if slapping, tapping, etc. aren't percussive, drum-like, and melodic then what are they?

Yup. Stealing from Victor Wooten, Mark King, and Gerald Reese, I've put together a list of percussive hit/tone combinations that I practice like rudiments, then mix-and-match them as needed. I use a different part of my right and left hand for each tactus. By never using the same spot on my hands two times in a row (or rarely), it keeps up a smooth flow and varied timbre that I hear as very drum pattern-like with the added feature of mixing notes into the patterns.

[dabbler]

I wouldn't say it the way the OP put it. The bass is part of the rhythm "section". But the rhythm section does not have to be precussive, think rhythm guitar. Everybody else has really answered the OP's question, but let me add this: James Brown's band had one of the tightest rhythm sections ever (my opinion), drums, bass and rhythm guitar. And each instrument played (pun not intended) their part, but no, it was not necessary for the bass player to play at all like he was playing a drum.

As for drums being melodic, ummm, no. Only one that comes close is timpani, because in my book, to be melodic you have to be able to play a musical scale.

[sqadan]

As a drummer with over 20 years experience playing in bands - I can tell you emphatically that although you may wish drums were a melodic instrument, most bands prefer their drummers to stick to keeping time. And if I had to tune my kits to pitches - I would drive myself crazy - it's mostly a pointless exercise.

Bass on the other hand is a melodic instrument - and guitar (as well as all other melodic instruments) have elements of timekeeping and rhythm as well. Basses and guitars can be played percussively - it's all a matter of what fits the song and personal preference.

[edwinhurwitz]

Originally Posted by dabbler

As for drums being melodic, ummm, no. Only one that comes close is timpani, because in my book, to be melodic you have to be able to play a musical scale.

You have never been in the same room with Max Roach playing Monk tunes on the solo drum kit, then. You can easily hear all the bop licks. It's astounding.

[nocontrols]

You can do whatever you want with a bass, just like you can do whatever you want with any instrument.

Usually, the bass is simultaneously a rhythm instrument in that it keeps the beat with the drums and also a harmony instrument in that it compliments the melody line in the vocal. More rarely, it's a melodic instrument but, hey, you can do whatever the hell you want with it.

When you say "play it like a drum" do you mean just banging out a rhythm with no regard to the pitch of the note being played? I guess you could and many have but it's nice to sympathize with the melodic element of the song if possible. Still and all, the bass is a part of the rhythm section and does act in concert with the drum at the same time. Bass players can do it all.

[TolerancEJ]

The Bass is not a single-use instrument. For everyone that may believe it has only one use, there will be another person to dispel that myth.

The Bass can be whatever you want to use it for... solid back-end basslines, upper register soloing, 2 handed tapping for a piano effect, some harmonics have sort of a "bell" sound to them, thumpin'/slappin' for bringin' da funk, muted thumpin' to work out a nice rhythm, fretboards can be fretted or fretless, string numbers can range from 1-string (Atlansia Solitaire) to 14-string non-coursed (custom luthiers), piccolo (Stanley) or subcontra (Jauqo), 8 or 12 coursed strings like a 12 string guitar, mergers/combinations of instruments such as the bass banjo or Kala's U-Bass, an upright plucked or bowed, upright played in the upper range for sort of a cello sound.

[dabbler]

Originally Posted by edwinhurwitz

You have never been in the same room with Max Roach playing Monk tunes on the solo drum kit, then. You can easily hear all the bop licks. It's astounding.

You are right, I haven't, I need to check that out! Can you suggest a recording?

[ba$$player]

Originally Posted by TolerancEJ

The Bass is not a single-use instrument. For everyone that may believe it has only one use, there will be another person to dispel that myth.

The Bass can be whatever you want to use it for... solid back-end basslines, upper register soloing, 2 handed tapping for a piano effect, some harmonics have sort of a "bell" sound to them, thumpin'/slappin' for bringin' da funk, muted thumpin' to work out a nice rhythm, fretboards can be fretted or fretless, string numbers can range from 1-string (Atlansia Solitaire) to 14-string non-coursed (custom luthiers), piccolo (Stanley) or subcontra (Jauqo), 8 or 12 coursed strings like a 12 string guitar, mergers/combinations of instruments such as the bass banjo or Kala's U-Bass, an upright plucked or bowed, upright played in the upper range for sort of a cello sound.

This is exactly why I love the bass! It can do anything!

[edwinhurwitz]

Originally Posted by dabbler

You are right, I haven't, I need to check that out! Can you suggest a recording?

I don't know of any recordings. I saw him do it at a clinic at UMass Amherst in 1982 and then at a concert at New England Conservatory in 1985 or so.

On a bass related note, his solo performance at NEC followed a performance by Betram Turetsky and the NEC Bass Gamelan. It was a great show for free on a Tuesday afternoon with a fairly sparse crowd. I used to love those Tuesday afternoons!

[jrfrond]

Speaking as a drummer first (for 42 years) and a bassist second (40 years), and currently playing bass in a band for the first time in a long time, this is my take on it.

First of all, I like to PLAY bass and HEAR bass that is PLAYED like a BASS. What's that you say? Simply this: a real section bassist needs to LOCK with the drummer, and they occasionally might play the same rhythm (typically kick & bass), but many times not. The bassist is the bridge between the drums and the rest of the instruments in the band, and needs to play solid enough to sound like a unit and groove with the drummer, yet melodic enough to support the pitched instruments in the band as necessary. The bassist should also be able to hunker down and play straight quarter-notes or simple root-IV or root-V progressions, and should know how to play a walking bass line without sounding like "elephant-stomp". Gratuitous soloing when uncalled for, at the expense of the groove, is strictly prohibited, and usually practiced by the "dig-me" dickheads, many of whom own 6-string basses and are really frustrated guitarists. Not to say that bass soloing is not a valid art form, but fragrant solo abuse by ANY instrument in a band situation is, in my opinion, a selfish act designed to feed one's ego.

A bassist, like ANY musician, also needs to have the proper tone for the gig. 'Nuff said on this.

So, the answer is for me is: Sometimes yes, most times no. It all depends on what the music calls for.

[edwinhurwitz]

Originally Posted by jrfrond

Speaking as a drummer first (for 42 years) and a bassist second (40 years), and currently playing bass in a band for the first time in a long time, this is my take on it.


So, the answer is for me is: Sometimes yes, most times no. It all depends on what the music calls for.

Truer words were never spoken. When playing in most bands, I stick to the basics, concentrating on supporting the dynamics of the vocal, locking with the drums (especially the kick) and a good tone. When I play in my Grateful Dead cover band, I get to do whatever I want, but it still must function rhythmically and harmonically as well as creatively within the band. After all, it's all about the conversation in that context and it sucks having a conversation with a bunch of people where it's dominated by one loudmouth.

[wes stephenson]

I think all instruments should be played like a drum...