In ear monatoring help please.

SunneyBoy · #1 03-28-2006, 07:59 AM

i have recently started a project with a group of mates, it is playing trance and dance live. the drummer uses an electric kit . they do not want ANY projected sound on stage . and have suggested that i get in ear monitors. i dont know where to start . what is a good brand to look at getting. if anyone could help that would great.

poptart · #2 03-28-2006, 09:48 AM

I have run a band for over ten years with an electric kit - we settled on useing good quality stage monitors as wireless in ear monitoring works out at £/$500 per person.

IMO you need to have a good sound on stage especially some bass to get some feel from the music. Also the other problem is that if you are playing live and are running your own PA and all have in ear monitoring you have no idea what the sound is doing.

Try Shure/Senheiser/Trantec among others. I hope this helps.

Eric Cameron · #3 03-28-2006, 03:20 PM

Don't bother. Unless you've got lots of money. The cheapest in ear wireless that I know of is the Shure PSM400, and that runs around $700. Whereas a JBL 15" powered speaker runs $300. And you will get better sound that way. The bass response on those little ear buds sucks just about as much as a Hoover.

Yeah, it means getting a little creative with mic placement and that you have to haul bigger gear around, but trust me, in ear wireless is nothing but a hassel unless you're big time.

Rock on
Eric

SunneyBoy · #4 03-29-2006, 04:32 AM

thanks for your imput guys. i will also run your comments past the other band members. mabey we can find a solution where everyone is happy.

Disco_Gee · #5 03-29-2006, 04:55 AM

I had to use those things almost every day for a week once - gigs and practice. I hated them. As Eric said, the bass response is hopeless. I also found that I had trouble feeling the music because the sound coming through the in-ears was like listening to a badly mixed CD. It didn't feel like i was playing my bass in my band, it felt more like I was playing along to a crap CD. I'm not sure if that makes sense to you or not, but I didn't like it one bit. I would always go with an Amp/cab over in ear monitors.

Petebass · #6 03-30-2006, 02:17 PM

Not really related to recording Equip, so I'll move this the "Misc".

**Ryan L.** · #7 03-30-2006, 08:56 PM

If you want decent ones, you better be prepared to spend some serious $$. We use Shure systems (not sure which models offhand), and I have the E5 earbuds. The earbuds alone are very expensive.

**Pacman** · #8 03-31-2006, 04:14 AM

My band just spec'd and ordered a Shure system with ER5s and the monitor processors for each person. It's in the $35,000 neighborhood.

**Ryan L.** · #9 03-31-2006, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

My band just spec'd and ordered a Shure system with ER5s and the monitor processors for each person. It's in the $35,000 neighborhood.

You guys must have went with the top of the line systems?? We don't have anywhere near that invested--but we are also only a 4 piece band.

chrisp2u · #10 03-31-2006, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

My band just spec'd and ordered a Shure system with ER5s and the monitor processors for each person. It's in the $35,000 neighborhood.

How many people do you have in your band?!

Last I looked, the Shure PSM700 receiver, transmitter, and E5 combo was around $2400.

My band just took the plunge into IEM's. I guess the experience depends on your equipment and setup... everyone in my band seems to love them. We still run through our amps (run a DI from my bass amp) just at about 1/3 the volume previously. That way you can still "feel" it enough to get into it. There are "shaker" platforms and throne attachments so that bassists and drummers can still feel the frequencies if playing at low or no volume (direct) too.

Picked up Westone UM2's for the for the IEM's themselves... almost half the price of the Shure E5's and sound just as good. We're not wireless yet though... that definitely kicks the cost up.

**Pacman** · #11 04-01-2006, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisp2u

How many people do you have in your band?!

Last I looked, the Shure PSM700 receiver, transmitter, and E5 combo was around $2400.

6 performers, 1 engineer.

We got the PSM700s, the IEM processor (verb, compression and EQ for each unit - very essential unit for good sound), a monitor desk, case (so we can leave it set up - rehearsals will get us extrememly close to our live mix), cables, etc, etc, etc...

We also bought an extra unit (as a backup) and extra earbuds for everyone.

chrisp2u · #12 04-01-2006, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

6 performers, 1 engineer.

We got the PSM700s, the IEM processor (verb, compression and EQ for each unit - very essential unit for good sound), a monitor desk, case (so we can leave it set up - rehearsals will get us extrememly close to our live mix), cables, etc, etc, etc...

We also bought an extra unit (as a backup) and extra earbuds for everyone.

Gotcha... redundancy, what a great idea!

Did you guys look into the Hear Technologies or Axiom personal mixer stuff at all? I picked up a Hearback with the personal mixers for my band and they're fantastic... everyone can dial in their own mix.
---
c

**Pacman** · #13 04-02-2006, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisp2u

Gotcha... redundancy, what a great idea!

Did you guys look into the Hear Technologies or Axiom personal mixer stuff at all? I picked up a Hearback with the personal mixers for my band and they're fantastic... everyone can dial in their own mix.
---
c

No we didn't. But since we bought a monitor desk that will sit just offstage, we'll be able to run our own mixes anyway.

chrisp2u · #14 04-02-2006, 11:52 AM

That must be a pretty sweet setup... I was curious about those IEM processors (DBX, right?). Our weekend warrior status prevents us from getting too crazy... probably already over-extended as it is... but the IEM stuff is worlds better than stage monitors, especially for singing. The personal monitor mixers are a definite bonus since they're pretty small. Can even hang them off your mic stand if you want (though if you have wireless coming off of it that might limit placement a bit).

I can't even imagine having a $35k budget. I'm probably only around $4k deep on my McGyver setup without wireless... will likely make the wireless jump at some point, when money allows. Enjoy!
---
c

SunneyBoy · #15 04-03-2006, 04:46 AM

are any of you using your in ears instead of a cab i did a gig on saturday evening where i had a floor monitor from hell . it couldnt take the punch so i sounded like @#%^ . so i had to take the bass outa my floor monitor . then my poor bass cab had to compete for with an extremely loud giutarist standing right next to me . the agony !!!!!!

last year i did a tour opening for the boy band "westlife".
they were fairly big shows , 20000 + audience.
i was using an eden tourer . i think that is what the sound company provided.

When i spoke to Freddy Thompson (he was playing bass for the westlife outfit). he told me he wasnt using an amp but only in ears and a sub to feel some rumble on stage.

so i am wondering if i can run my swr mo'bass head . and substitute my bass cab with in ear monitoring. the whole concept makes sense to me . at most concerts they DI ones signal any way.

Big plus i wont have to lug around a huge bass cab that stands taller than what i am any more and my ears might incure slightly less damage.

are any of you taking this aproach to your live performance sound?

If you want to skype me or discuss it my skype name is sunneyjim. i am online most of the time.

chrisp2u · #16 04-03-2006, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunneyBoy

When i spoke to Freddy Thompson (he was playing bass for the westlife outfit). he told me he wasnt using an amp but only in ears and a sub to feel some rumble on stage.

so i am wondering if i can run my swr mo'bass head . and substitute my bass cab with in ear monitoring. the whole concept makes sense to me . at most concerts they DI ones signal any way.

Hey Sunney,

There are a few companies (Clark Synthesis, Aura, Buttkicker) that make "shakers" which are essentially small motors that simulate the low frequency rumble that you feel from a cab. I've never used one, but I know of some drummers that use them and say that it helps them quite a bit to better feel the music when using IEM's.

From various user experiences I've read online, Buttkicker seems to be the favorite. They do make a shaker platform for bass players too.

Here are some links:
http://thebuttkicker.com/prosound_ba...0drummers.html
http://www.clarksynthesis.com/
http://www.aurasound.com/

SunneyBoy · #17 04-03-2006, 01:42 PM

thanks for the info and the links i have heard of these havent checked them out though. will check them out now. hope they offer a solution .

Eric Cameron · #18 04-03-2006, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

No we didn't. But since we bought a monitor desk that will sit just offstage, we'll be able to run our own mixes anyway.

What kind? Allen and Heath?

Rock on
Eric

vicenzajay · #19 04-03-2006, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Cameron

Don't bother. Unless you've got lots of money. The cheapest in ear wireless that I know of is the Shure PSM400, and that runs around $700. Whereas a JBL 15" powered speaker runs $300. And you will get better sound that way. The bass response on those little ear buds sucks just about as much as a Hoover.

Yeah, it means getting a little creative with mic placement and that you have to haul bigger gear around, but trust me, in ear wireless is nothing but a hassel unless you're big time.

Rock on
Eric

Disagree. Really - I couldn't disagree more with pretty much everything said here.

First - Shure makes a very robust system (with less frequency options) called the PSM-200. The whole system runs 500 bucks brand new - about 400 dollars on eBay or any other auction site.

Second - I use Westone UM-1's (essentially equivalent to Shure E-3's) - although a single balanced armature driver, these earbuds have incredible bass response. It just requires proper in-ear placement and sealing. This will take you about 3 or 4 times doing it incorrectly, and then you'll be fine. What's really incredible is that you will hear errors in intonation and finger placement that you never heard before - especially with a fretless instrument. The separation of sound between the other band instruments is simply amazing, and the fact that you will now actually sing in tune (due to hearing yourself incredibly clearly) without all the ambient noise is priceless and will help improve the overall sound of your band. And speaking of improving your band's overall sound...

Third - anyone who actually understands even the basics of sound engineering knows that any venue, no matter how large, has a finite amount of sonic energy that can efficiently and accurately be managed. In a club situation, that amount of sound is much less than a big arena venue (acoustic construction being equal). Any time you reduce the amount of sound on-stage - you improve the ability of the FOH mix to more cleanly and efficiently present your music to your audience. This is not my opinion - it's simple physics. In addition, reducing stage volume pays enormous dividends in reducing gain before feedback levels and cleaning up ambient noise that feeds into all the vocal, amp, and drum microphones. All of this means cleaner, better, more articulated sound for your voice, instrument, and band.

Fourth - Along with better sound, you'll save your hearing and your back by not toting along an extra couple hundred pounds of floor wedges, etc.

Unless money is the object, there's really no reason to not consider in-ear monitors as the best on-stage monitoring solution. Not everyone can afford them...in that case, work very hard on controlling the on-stage volume and use the PA to the best of its ability in order to get your best sound FOH.

Not trying to pick a fight, but saying that in-ear monitors have bad bass response is simply wrong (and a pretty brash statement considering that there really aren't too many well-known major...or minor...touring/gigging bands that don't use them). Yes, they are not cheap...but an extra 100 bucks to have a very clear, ear-saving, back-saving, better sounding monitor mix is actually a very cheap price to pay.

Jay

SunneyBoy · #20 04-04-2006, 02:44 AM

hey there jay.

how are you setting up your in ear system?
i dont think i will be going wireless due to costs for the moment how would you suggest i set them up. i have heard its a good idea to get a unit that limits the amount of sound going to your in ears . in case a someone happens to step on their cable and fries your ear drums. it could happen.

i have seen a little product called ART headtap headphone amp. i think it impedes the level to your monitors. have you heard of these before?