In ear monitors

Wayon · #1 10-31-2007, 01:31 AM

We (the band) are constantly having monitor issues. The main problem being we can't get them loud enough without feedback. Sometimes we can, depending on the room, but we are almost always just on the brink of feedback.

We are thinking about in-ear monitors. Anybody use these?
Pros and cons?

Thanks in advance.

W

iamthebassman · #2 10-31-2007, 07:41 AM

We have 4 sometimes 5 people singing so monitors are a big deal for us. We checked into in-ear monitors but they're pretty expensive. We've gone to side-fills on sticks, so far so good.

Phalex · #3 10-31-2007, 08:02 AM

In ear monitors are pretty cool, but the two channel ones that I really really like are very expensive. On the plus side you can hear anything and everything you want to hear, as loud or soft as you want to hear it. That's great for playing with the band. On the con side, there is a definite feeling of disconnect from anything and everything that isn't mic'd. This includes the audience. When I have an extra $800.00 I do intend to get me one, but in the mean time I'll just keep doin what I'm doin.

lefty007 · #4 10-31-2007, 08:39 AM

They are awesome and there is a reason why 99% of big acts are using them, but they are expensive to do right and you need a dedicated sound engineer to take care of the monitor mix.

Prices have gone down, especially if you don't go for a wireless system. You can get sound-isolanting earphones for as little as $49, or $100 for a decent pair (m-audio), and get a regular multi-channel headphone amplifier that you would use for recording (not using dedicated monitor packs for each musician. . . but again, to do this at a club or bar without an engineer taking care of it will be nearly impossible, I think.

bluestarbass · #5 10-31-2007, 09:40 AM

pros- you can do things in secret you couldnt do on normal monitors, like click tracks or ques.
-very easy to hear
-you have your own setup so there is no variation from show to show
-sound wont change as you move around on stage
-you dont have to lug heavy stage monitors around

Cons:
-for the most part they are much more damaging to your hearing. People turn them up so they can hear them over their amps. Its like having a wedge monitor in your ear.
-they are expensive and you get what you pay for. Most people I know who got the cheap ones had more problems with them than they were worth.
-Trying to teach each soundguy how it works is a nightmare. Some have no problems with it, some cant figure it out.

**Pacman** · #6 10-31-2007, 11:15 AM

You don't need a separate engineer for in-ears! We use them in my group, and we just split off the snake, and have two stereo crest mixers so that each of the 7 of us can have their own separate stereo mix. I LOVE having them, and wouldn't go back if I didn't have to!

skb5string · #7 10-31-2007, 11:41 AM

I love using ours, but yes anything not Mic'd or going through the board won't be heard. But, the ability to mix things as I want to hear them is priceless. We have a couple of Guitar players at church who are kinda "learning" and its great to be able to "turn them off" out of the ears. Yes, to have a controlled mix with clean detail, the ablity to monitor click tracks and ques makes it all worth it to me. Sometimes I just wear 1 of them in my right ear so I can get some stage atmosphere. For those of you who like thembut hate being "detached" from the audience....area condensor mics piped in through the monitor mix is you answer.

Diggler · #8 10-31-2007, 12:15 PM

They're not damaging to your ears at all if you have sound isolating ones. They block out the ambient sound and you just turn it up enough to comfortably listen.

I bought a Sennheiser 300 G1 from ebay for around $300. Paired it with a set of LiveWires dual driver custom earbuds for $249, and I see no reason to upgrade. I'm perfectly happy with the entire system.

The only downfall is also the upside... ambient sound blockage. I am much more insistent to following the setlist because it's hard to hear my bandmates talk unless they're near a mic. I am thinking of getting a tiny lavalier mic to fix that.

Also, Pacman is right, you don't need an engineer. Actually, once I got my mix to where I wanted it, I haven't changed it at all from venue to venue; I always hear the same mix regardless of the room acoustics and it sounds perfect!

SteveC · #9 10-31-2007, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayon

The main problem being we can't get them loud enough without feedback.

This is a telling statement.

I know this seems counter-intuitive to many, but it's amazing how well you can hear when you turn down. I am willing to bet that your stage volume is too loud.

IEM's are great but I bet you can achieve a lot more - and at no cost - if you examine your volume/balance/gain structure.

Jerry Ziarko · #10 10-31-2007, 06:54 PM

As far as hearing your band mates, put a mic on stage pointed towards the band, and use a Pro Co Sign Off pedal to turn it on between songs. I use an old EV omni directional broadcast mic that I picked up for a song on e-bay. It is a perfect mic for this application. I point mine at an angle between the audience and the band and can hear on and off stage banter between songs quite well.

Wayon · #11 10-31-2007, 07:22 PM

Thanks to all for the info.

Yes we are a loud band. And we all sing so everyone wants to hear a monitor. Thats why I'm thinking IEM's because I'm beginning to notice that tinnitus thing getting worse.

The money's worth it if its better for the hearing.

Thanks again

W

Jerry Ziarko · #12 10-31-2007, 07:30 PM

My best days are now behind me, but I wish this technology was around years ago. I have pretty severe tinnitus in my right ear, that I will most likely have for the rest of my life. I give thanks every time I play music that I have a great IEM set up. It allows me to continue to play while protecting the hearing I have left. Take it from someone that has loud ringing 24/7, take steps NOW since you are noticing a problem.

**Pacman** · #13 10-31-2007, 09:08 PM

I should note that while I'm exceptionally pleased with our IEM system, we spent 35 grand on our system...

Lazylion · #14 11-01-2007, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry Ziarko

I have pretty severe tinnitus in my right ear, that I will most likely have for the rest of my life. I give thanks every time I play music that I have a great IEM set up. It allows me to continue to play while protecting the hearing I have left. Take it from someone that has loud ringing 24/7, take steps NOW since you are noticing a problem.

I've noticed more ringing in my ears since we got the IEM system. The mix is never right, no matter how much tweaking I do, and I'm often stuck with too much volume, during songs where the bass doesn't stop. With the floor monitors, I could just step away from them or angle my head differently if it was too loud. But when the speaker is right in my ear, there's no getting away.
I find the IEM constantly annoying and distracting, and I've considered quitting the band over it.

Diggler · #15 11-02-2007, 07:43 AM

Don't you have a volume control on the beltpack?

Your IEM mix shouldn't change from gig to gig. The only way it should change is if you're starting from scratch and using different gain levels every time. It should get consistently better as you use it and tweak it.

I only turn myself up so that I can hear everything, not to feel like I'm at a rock concert. I think the best IEM mix is the one you do yourself, not with a monitor engineer.

Petebass · #16 11-02-2007, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazylion

I've noticed more ringing in my ears since we got the IEM system. The mix is never right, no matter how much tweaking I do, and I'm often stuck with too much volume, during songs where the bass doesn't stop. With the floor monitors, I could just step away from them or angle my head differently if it was too loud. But when the speaker is right in my ear, there's no getting away.
I find the IEM constantly annoying and distracting, and I've considered quitting the band over it.

Are you sure you're not subconsciously trying to replicate your normal gig volume via your IEM? Used properly, the SPL hitting your ears with IEM should be MUCH less that without IEM. It takes some time to get used to the vibe of the reduced SPL, but it's worth the effort to get it right.

There is a downside to IEM - Batteries. 9V batteries aren't cheap and you chew them up pretty fast. Some of the newer IEM's use AA batteries and they're much better. I tend to plug a cable into my IEM whenever possible and only use the wireless beltpack when necessary.

Psychicpet · #17 11-02-2007, 04:57 PM

we use the Aviom system and travel with it where ever we go. Not cheap but amazingly good.

too much to spec out so maybe just try to visit their site.

definitely a great way to go.

**Pacman** · #18 11-02-2007, 08:29 PM

The batteries are a killer, and on the Shure PSM 7 system, there's no cord option. Thank God the taxpayers buy my batteries!

The other thing that will seriously effect the quality of your IEM experience is the earbuds themselves. I use the top of the line Shures, and they're very good - but they're also extremely pricey.

Petebass · #19 11-02-2007, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

Thank God the taxpayers buy my batteries!
.

I don't pay for my batteries either. I'm lucky enough to have a generous employer who buys them in bulk for the whole band to use.

The bigger problem for me is that I have very little opportunity to change the battery during a gig. We play medleys so there's no such thing as "in between songs".

I'm tooling around with one of those 3V to 9V converter kits you have to assemble yourself. I can then use 2 AA's instead of a 9v. When you consider most 9V have a capacity of only 250mAh, and AA's are about 2,500 mAh, it's safe to assume they'll last considerably longer (mAh quoted are estimates based on rechargables).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

The other thing that will seriously effect the quality of your IEM experience is the earbuds themselves. I use the top of the line Shures, and they're very good - but they're also extremely pricey.
.

I have the Westone UM2's which are pretty much the same as your Shures (assuming they're E5's). I also have some Sennheiser CX300's which were a quarter the price, but actually sound better for bass! Beware of the Ebay fakes though..........

Lazylion · #20 11-02-2007, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diggler

Don't you have a volume control on the beltpack?

Of course, but most of the time there is no break in the bass part where I can adjust it. Only between songs. I guess I could just stop playing and fiddle with the knob, but I'm reluctant to do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diggler

Your IEM mix shouldn't change from gig to gig. The only way it should change is if you're starting from scratch and using different gain levels every time. It should get consistently better as you use it and tweak it.

I wish that were the case, I really do. But it's not. Things change from gig to gig, and from song to song during the gig as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diggler

I only turn myself up so that I can hear everything, not to feel like I'm at a rock concert. I think the best IEM mix is the one you do yourself, not with a monitor engineer.

I'm not trying to get concert volume out of my earphones. I'm trying to keep it as low as possible, actually. But then there will be a vocal I can't hear, or the guitar is suddenly too loud. Also, it's hard for me to get over to the monitor board on the right side of the stage from my spot at stage left. So I have to try to get the girl singer's attention, so she can tweak knobs for me. You can guess how well that works, and it's very disruptive, show-wise.
I would just ditch the earphones altogether, but the bandleader has a mic that is only in the monitor, so he can call out songs on the fly. I need to hear that, so I know what we're doing next.