Ear training on bass?

**Matthew_84** · #1 09-01-2011, 02:58 PM

Hey guys,

I was doing a Relative Pitch course by David L. Burge, but got caught up reworking and rearranging my technique. So I put the course aside (I really just started anyway), and now I'm nearly ready to start it back up again.

Question though, should I be going through this course on my fretted bass or on a keyboard? The thing is that the keyboard is always perfectly in tune, but the fretted is obviously not, and even with the intonation set at the best possible position the pitch goes a little sharp or flat the further I move from the 12th fret. But I play the bass so shouldn't my ear be used to that pitch? But I'd also be listening to the changes of other instruments, so...

I don't really know, maybe I should do both?

A couple things I should note: 1) I will be doing the Perfect Pitch course after this one, and 2) I will start playing some sort of fretless bass in the very near future.

Thanks,

Matt

Icey101 · #2 09-01-2011, 04:17 PM

your ear and your bass is what you need with the object to transition to your fretless

GeoffT · #3 09-01-2011, 04:39 PM

Since you're talking relative pitch, as long as your intonation isn't way off on your bass and the strings are tuned to each other you should be fine. If you have trouble singing low and have to move way up the neck, make sure the intonation is good in the range you use to sing. Could be cool to throw in some keys or other instruments on occasion since they have a different timbre from the bass.

**Matthew_84** · #4 09-01-2011, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffT

Could be cool to throw in some keys or other instruments on occasion since they have a different timbre from the bass.

Yeah, I was kind of thinking that I should primarily stick with the bass but that maybe I should use the keyboard every once and a while. The course right now is just intervals, then scales, but it will get into chords later so I'll use the keyboard then.

Maybe I'll do most of the work with the bass but just do a couple runs through the keyboard to reinforce it all, my only concern about that is that my ear may get a bit confused because some of the pitches will be slightly off from each other, or do I have nothing to worry about?

Papa Dangerous · #5 09-01-2011, 04:53 PM

I personally think you should do both. Piano and bass make the same notes (as long as the bass is within range) it is just a matter of timbre. However on a piano, instead of just playing, say G, you can play a G M chord and try and hum the 1, 3, and 5th of the chord and try and listen for the moment of sonic perfect between voice, instrument and ear.

Something I thought about today: I was thinking about to my days in college and was talking to the music librarian about hearing pitches and learning relative pitch. So told me on thing and it stuck with me. It is just one example, but I am sure there are many many more...

Think of the wedding theme.. Lets start with Bah... what is the next note? (I know you know this... its probably ingrained into your head you can hear it and sing/hum it) Well.. do it!! That is a distance of a fourth. If I ever need to think of the distance of a fourth (which is not likely cause I do not really think it... I should try though) think that song. Now you have relative distance number 1 of 12 that you are training to hear. Try this with other songs that are permanently burned into your brain

**Matthew_84** · #6 09-01-2011, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa Dangerous

Think of the wedding theme.. Lets start with Bah... what is the next note? (I know you know this... its probably ingrained into your head you can hear it and sing/hum it) Well.. do it!! That is a distance of a fourth. If I ever need to think of the distance of a fourth (which is not likely cause I do not really think it... I should try though) think that song. Now you have relative distance number 1 of 12 that you are training to hear. Try this with other songs that are permanently burned into your brain

LOL, I've always had a hard time remembering that theme... I even tried to look it up and youtube to refresh my memory but couldn't find the right song...

And I'm dead serious when I say this, but every time I try and sing that song I end up singing the funeral song.

Papa Dangerous · #7 09-01-2011, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew_84

Yeah, I was kind of thinking that I should primarily stick with the bass but that maybe I should use the keyboard every once and a while. The course right now is just intervals, then scales, but it will get into chords later so I'll use the keyboard then.

Maybe I'll do most of the work with the bass but just do a couple runs through the keyboard to reinforce it all, my only concern about that is that my ear may get a bit confused because some of the pitches will be slightly off from each other, or do I have nothing to worry about?

The notes will be the same, just tune your bass to the keyboard and it will be exactly the same.

A4 ( I think its 4...) will always be 440 vibrations. I do not know if you know, but I will explain anyways. When you play A4 on a piano, the hammer strikes the strings and they vibrate 440 times per second, this information is modeled or sampled and put onto a keyboard. The same with the bass, if you play A4... the string will vibrate 440 times per second. (Pluck the string and watch it spin in a circle, it does that 440 times... this is what I was told at least by a professor... seems like a lot to happen in a second.. but look how fast it moves!!!)

So yeah, you should have no issues going from instrument to instrument and recognizing relative pitch. It might take a second thought as you apply the difference in timbre, but it is technically the same exact note.

**Matthew_84** · #8 09-01-2011, 05:42 PM

Well, the pitch will always be slightly off on a fretted bass... Granted it's not much, but it's still there.

Check out this video, it's pretty self-explanatory, but about 60% of the way through he says something that I never realized before. The lower area of the neck will always be sharper than the higher area. I've tuned my bass with this method and yes the intonation is really good, but not every note is perfectly on like a keyboard.

How to adjust your guitar or bass intonation by tech Bill Baker - YouTube

Papa Dangerous · #9 09-01-2011, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew_84

LOL, I've always had a hard time remembering that theme... I even tried to look it up and youtube to refresh my memory but couldn't find the right song...

And I'm dead serious when I say this, but every time I try and sing that song I end up singing the funeral song.

HAH! I thought I was the only person that happened too!

Now I cannot recall the funeral march...

**Matthew_84** · #10 09-01-2011, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa Dangerous

HAH! I thought I was the only person that happened too!

Now I cannot recall the funeral march...

Can someone post a link of the two SEPERATE songs... we need some help here!

Papa Dangerous · #11 09-01-2011, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew_84

Well, the pitch will always be slightly off on a fretted bass... Granted it's not much, but it's still there.

Check out this video, it's pretty self-explanatory, but about 60% of the way through he says something that I never realized before. The lower area of the neck will always be sharper than the higher area. I've tuned my bass with this method and yes the intonation is really good, but not every note is perfectly on like a keyboard.

How to adjust your guitar or bass intonation by tech Bill Baker - YouTube

That was a great link! I did not really think that it much of a difference, but apparently if there is a video about it, and through his explanation.. I can see where the problem could lay. Kudos!

**Matthew_84** · #12 09-01-2011, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew_84

Well, the pitch will always be slightly off on a fretted bass... Granted it's not much, but it's still there.

Check out this video, it's pretty self-explanatory, but about 60% of the way through he says something that I never realized before. The lower area of the neck will always be sharper than the higher area. I've tuned my bass with this method and yes the intonation is really good, but not every note is perfectly on like a keyboard.

How to adjust your guitar or bass intonation by tech Bill Baker - YouTube

I'm probably nitpicking a bit though, I don't think that that tiny difference will hinder my training. So I'll just train with both.

**Matthew_84** · #13 09-01-2011, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa Dangerous

That was a great link! I did not really think that it much of a difference, but apparently if there is a video about it, and through his explanation.. I can see where the problem could lay. Kudos!

Yeah, on my bass the difference is generally about 436 - 444. Not really that much, but I was concerned that that could throw me off a little... Not so much anymore though

Papa Dangerous · #14 09-01-2011, 05:57 PM

It is worth being concerned when your you are trying to achieve something that has "Perfect" in the title. In fact, a lack of concern would be lazy!

**Matthew_84** · #15 09-01-2011, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa Dangerous

It is worth being concerned when your you are trying to achieve something that has "Perfect" in the title. In fact, a lack of concern would be lazy!

Yeah, you're right LOL... I kind of forgot about the whole Perfect Pitch and fretless thing.... So.. Uh... Keyboard?

EDIT TO ADD: Actually, I have a question for people who play fretless (electrics, EUBs and DB's) AND fretted bass guitars: If you have perfect intonation on your fretless can you tell that the fretted notes are slightly off? Do you live with it or do you play the same pitch on the fretless that you'd play on the fretted?

I know I'm not likely going to get Absolute Perfect Pitch, but I am curious about it anyway.