eBay sellers woes

[Thunderitter]

I recently sold my Gibson SG Standard on eBay. It was shipped at auction end (last Wednesday) and the buyer got the guitar last Friday morning. Last night he filed a complaint against me on PayPal saying the guitar was 'significantly different' that how I had described is.

First off, I described the guitar as 'very good condition' and 'USED' and said there were several small marks, which couldn't be photographed. I then went on to make a quip about how I've seen certain stores pass off guitars in similar condition as new, but for the purpose full disclosure I again reiterated that the guitar was not 100%, but added it wasn't far off. I also stated the guitar has never been gigged, which is 100% true.

Before the auction finished the buyer called me and I described the marking on the guitar as best as I could. I pointed out that there was some buckle rash on the back of the guitar and also that the scratch plate was scratched, but again that I was unable to photograph this. He asked me if the guitar was in really good condition and I answer that it was, but that it was a used guitar I added that I looked after my guitars (I do). At that time he negotiated a $50 reduction in price and free shipping (shipping cost me $20). He paid $900 (new retail is $1649).

He's now come back to me via PayPal asking for a further $100 off the guitar. Here's what his claim says:

I am very disapointed with the guitar, as the condition was described as (certainly nothing more than you'd find on a guitar being sold as new) when in fact this guitar has some worming on the backside from a belt buckle,and it also has two chips along the outside back edge,and a dent on the front lower body.

It certainly appears that this guitar was gigged for this damage to occur. I feel the condition was not described accurately.

I am willing to return the guitar for a full refund or would expect some monitary compensation.

I add that he misquoted me, what I did say was nothing more than you'd find being sold for new at certain guitar stores. I recognize now that trying to be humorous was not a good idea, but the fact we discussed that very issue before he bought the guitar again makes me feel a little better about that.

Anyway my original post is at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=290300648299

I was aware of the two marks he talks about on the back edge, didn't get them to photograph. However I am not aware of the mark on the lower front.

My initial thought is that he is suffering a bit of buyer remorse. Why else would he wait a week before filing a claim? As some of you may know the SG has a transparent nitro finish so all you have to do is look at it and it marks. I certainly am happy that I did my best to represent the guitar accurately.

Anyway, in order to get this put to be I've gone back and offered him a further $50 off the guitar and I'm awaiting his reply. I'm not really wanting to take the guitar back, but I've also not done a PayPal dispute before, but I've heard these days that they take the buyers side of things.

Anyway, what do folks out there think about the situation I find myself in?

Thanks in advance!

[WarriorJoe7]

He probably just wants money off. Tell him to send it back for a refund (minus shipping is ebay's policy) and you BOTH lose your shipping cost. See if he wants to do that. If he doesn't he is just pulling your chain and just wants a discount.

of course if you really needed the money it might backfire, but if it was just extra money then go this route...

[chokeslam512]

I would tell him to pound sand. No discounts, return only on his dollar. Isn't there a 7 day return policy?

[mpm32]

I would just offer to refund the entire purchase price and have him ship it back to you on his dime with insurance.

When people haven't been happy with an item I have sold them, 3 out of 4 times they end up keeping the item when I offer them the refund.

And, if he does send it back, chances are you'll end up selling it for even more cash.

Not worth getting into the whole dispute thing.

[Thunderitter]

First off I thought I'd posted this in the off topics, so sorry in advance.

It does sound to me he's trying to be clever here and I'm getting close to telling him to return it. He's jsut contact me with the following:

David,
Chips and dents and worming on the backside were not mentioned in your description.
You called them small marks.
My offer stands. I would like to return the guitar for a full refund or I would accept a $100.00 discount
for keeping the guitar.
I will leave it up to you.
Thank you

[manutabora]

Your auction does say that you won't take returns. On the other hand, it doesn't say anything about warranty.
When I sell used gear, I always list it "as is" and make it very clear that I don't offer warranties or returns.

[ceedj]

I don't think this is in the right section, and I don't know much about Gibson's personally, but myself, I could never describe something as in "really good condition" that had buckle wear on it. Good condition, maybe, but not "really good". You may have shot yourself in the foot with the music store quip, intentionally or not. That being said, I don't think an additional $100 off is unreasonable either, considering that musical instruments generally drop about 50% of their value as soon as they leave the store. You might get lucky, and he'll take $50. I think you should be happy he's not asking for MORE. Just MODO.

[nightcityburn]

Originally Posted by ceedj

I don't think this is in the right section, and I don't know much about Gibson's personally, but myself, I could never describe something as in "really good condition" that had buckle wear on it. Good condition, maybe, but not "really good". You may have shot yourself in the foot with the music store quip, intentionally or not. That being said, I don't think an additional $100 off is unreasonable either, considering that musical instruments generally drop about 50% of their value as soon as they leave the store. You might get lucky, and he'll take $50. I think you should be happy he's not asking for MORE. Just MODO.

50% of their value? I would hope I don't lose out that much. They drop a siginificant amount, but 50% is a bit high on the estimate. More like 30%, at the most. As they age and condition changes, value will fluctuate.

[NS2A]

Originally Posted by manutabora

Your auction does say that you won't take returns. On the other hand, it doesn't say anything about warranty.
When I sell used gear, I always list it "as is" and make it very clear that I don't offer warranties or returns.

I think the "no returns" simply means if the buyer doesn't like it, they can't return it.

"As is", is just that.

I just got a 4 track recorder yesterday that didn't work. The auction says 'no returns', but the listing also did say it works great. He's taking it back. I think he kind of has to.

Personally, if you need the money, give him $100 back. You're out shipping anyway.

[PSPookie]

I have had similar things happen to me, even with sales here on TB. You go out of your way to decribe, in detail, the condition of the instrument and include as many pictures as possible yet the buyer is still suprised when the instrument shows up exactly as described.

There is a good chance that this guy is just a douchebag looking for a way to get a few bucks back. I would offer the refund and let him ship it on his dime. My guess is that he won't want to go tha route and that will be the end of it.

Ebay, blech

[dkurth65]

I had a guy buy a Fender P-bass deluxe from me. 1 MONTH LATER!! he emails me and says he is unhappy with the bass, that it was packed poorly, the tone knob was spinning all the way around, and it was poorly set up. I had only owned the bass for a few months, bought brand new from MF, only sold it because the "blue" that it was advertised as for all intents and purposes looked black in person. and I don't like black at all. Anyway, he wants a huge discount on the price he paid or a return, which I would have done, if it would have been a reasonable time after he had recieved the bass. I also do not know what he might have done to the bass in the month that he owned it. for all I know he could have done a Paul Simonon/ London Calling thing to it. He then goes on to tell me that he is a "professional" musician and he didnt get around to playing the bass until a month after purchase and didnt find the problems until then. I told him If I buy a bass on Ebay I play it as soon as I get it. 1) to see if there are problems 2) because I got a new bass. So in the end, I didnt do any refund and he ruined my perfect Ebay feedback rating.

[aproud1]

Originally Posted by WarriorJoe7

He probably just wants money off. Tell him to send it back for a refund (minus shipping is ebay's policy) and you BOTH lose your shipping cost. See if he wants to do that. If he doesn't he is just pulling your chain and just wants a discount.

of course if you really needed the money it might backfire, but if it was just extra money then go this route...

I agree with Joe.

[Thunderitter]

I get the feeling I wouldn't be able to describe this guitar accurately for this guy with out a 5 page survey!

I haven't sold on eBay for a while and it's my bad that I forgot to put 'as is, where is'.

Has any one actually gone though an eBay/PayPal claim?

[ZoomBoy]

Never had a Paypal dispute but I've had people try this approach to get some cash out of me. IME the best thing to do here has been posted but I will agree on telling the guy to send it back and you will refund the purchase price. Once he thinks about the work involved to pack it back up and ship he probably will keep it. In fact the last time this happened to me I would not accept any other resolution other that sending it back. It worked.

Jeff

[mothmonsterman]

tell him to go suck an egg and report him to ebay and paypal for verbal abuse and don't forget to add the disclaimer "As Is" to stuff you sell.

[Fly Guitars]

I largely agree with the previous posts - offer a return, or failing that $50 as a goodwill gesture rather than an admission of being in the wrong.

You were a bit silly to use the shop comparison - not that you are wrong, but this can lead to confusion if you are not used to looking at stock in a lot of shops.

I personally don't like to put too much description of condition in an ebay listing - because it is so subjective. Better to take very large images, and let those do the talking.

Having said this, I'm not sure paypal will come down on the buyers side this time. If it was a fake, or broken etc they would, but something as subtle as this, maybe not. If, however the buyer can easily photograph the scratches, and demonstrate them to paypal, it may be another matter.

[JonathanD]

I once sold a guitar amp and the guy tried to get me to take it back because he did not like the reverb. Every other time ebay has been easy.
Good luck!

[Thunderitter]

Originally Posted by evilLordJuju

You were a bit silly to use the shop comparison - not that you are wrong, but this can lead to confusion if you are not used to looking at stock in a lot of shops.

+1

In 50+ sales on eBay this has been my first issue. I suppose I've been lucky, but I also think that reflects that I describe accurately!

My biggest issue with this bloke is the fact that it took him a week to report the issues. We've had a couple of email exchanges but he is yet to respond to my question of 'why it took him a week?'.

Thanks for all who've posted to date. You've really helped me get my head around this matter in a way that it's hard to do with just your own views and feelings.

[Franz Jr.]

I filed a dispute with Paypal a few months back!

I bought a Fender Marcus Miller 5 from a guy who described it "Mint", with light swirl marks on the back of the bass. He did say there were 3 or 4 "bumps " in the finish as well. Also, the bass had just been professionally setup! I emailed him with some additional questions and he was quick to respond, so I bought it and paid for it immediately. I told him I needed the bass by Friday (this was a Monday and he was in GA and I am in NC). No problem, he says!

I must add the listing made no mention of not accepting returns or that the item was sold as is.

So I pay for it and he says he won't ship until the payment clears from his Paypal account into his bank account. After I remind him of our email conversation, he says the payment has not made it into his Paypal account. I check and it says "pending"!! he gave me the wrong Paypal address to begin with. So it's now Wednesday when he gets payment and then says he won't ship til Friday!

So I don't get the bass until the following Tuesday. I open the box, pull the bass out of the case. OMG!!! This bass was in way less than "MINT" condition. The swirl marks were actually 3 cracks in the finish that ran the entire length on the back of the bass. The 3 or 4 bumps in the finish were at my count 22 bumps, dings, and gouges in the finish.

This guy had about 40 or so transactions with 100% feedback, so I thought I had a reputable guy. I contacted him literally within an hour of getting the bass. Guess what?? No response!! I gave him3 days before I filed a dispute with PayPal. He never responded to my request for a refund. he would only respond to PayPal when they contacted him.

Now, I provided all the evidence to the PayPal fraud team, and to their credit gave me a $1500 coupon to use for Ebay and I kept the bass, to end the dispute.

Some people may seem trust worthy but you can never be sure!

[davetakis]

this is why i stopped using ebay and paypal. considering ebay owns paypal, you are screwed either way.

i only use www.mygear.com now to sell gear.