At the end, the tone really matters?

[FunkyMan]

Hey don't insult me for saying so, this is not my argument Well..

We bass players, always in search of evolution as a musician, every day we want to improve in terms of learning, technique, style, knowledge of the instrument etc. .. and especially in getting THAT tone you always dreamed of. That's the reason why over time we want a bass increasingly better than the current. But sometimes, not all people around you feel the same..

Recently I sold a Warwick Thumb NT 6 Strings which can be considered a high standing quality bass but I was not happy with the tone anymore, wanted something different and decided to order a custom bass from a luthier.. their sound?just as i had always dreamed almost like Fodera , but this move does not liked most of my musicians friends and band members, because they have always argued that (this is the point) Why I have been concerned by Always find a better bass with better pickups, better woods, better looking, better TONE, if at the end all these features (growl, crystal highs, nasal mids, ass kicking fat low end etc. ..) cares only bassist it self? only to satisfy our deepest tastes of better tone?, if at the end, what a band cares about is that the bass just ring and do his job, if at the end when you play live in big concerts, all these details are lost, if at the end, the audience in general is not concerned by your tone, you will always receive compliments only from bassists, custom basses are not commercially viable, because when you want to sell it,people are not going to give you the money you paid for it, because isn't a known brand.. buy a less expensive bass and save your money..and many more absurdities IMO....

For a moment I was worry and I thought about it, imagine 50 musicians friends telling you the same thing over and over again .. but guess what? the next week, I went and ordered the bass .. What do you think of all this? there will be some truth in any of these statements? I was always clear.. Thanks

[MiGGY]

I must admit i some what agree.. I've heard a lot of mainly older guys say your tone come from your hands not your bass.

[AutisticLicense]

I think my sig states my position fairly clearly. It's basically a reaction to sig I saw on the Orange forum:
Tone is everything
Tone is easily the least important part of playing music. It will never make up for a bad setup, much less a bad bassist. I see so much time and energy spent on tone by people who should be spending it on learning to actually play.

[MEKer]

Hey, a better tone can be inspirational to your playing---that makes the "search" con mucho valor.

Buscando el tono o timbre perfecto es una adventura que paga para todos cuando hallado!

In all english---heck yes, finding the tone that inspires you is of great value. Your hands can give a lot of meaning and such including technique and dynamics, but put all that on a crappy toned instrument and that's what you get, a crappy tone played well and garnering a lot of complaints from those that like to pick apart peoples' playing. That's not inspiring at all to me.
Looking for a tone is an adventure that pays off for everybody when its found.
There---my 2 cents.

[PortugalWillie]

It's always about the music first.

If your bass lines aren't any good, the tone your playing will never matter.

[BananaKing]

Let me ask you: Do you notice tone?

The tone that is used in any particular situation usually reflects the kind of music that you play. It moves the music differently. Something like a P-bass with flats will sit in the music differently than a Jazz Bass with rounds. One will push the music more while the other might have a more cutting tone.

As for the Custom bass question:

Lets just say that you worked at a job where you had to make deliveries and drive your car all day. Eventually, you would probably upgrade various parts of your car to get it to perform just the way you want: Better Sound system, Nicer Upholstery, Steering Wheel cover, Tighten up the turning radius, New AC system, etc........

Most other people wouldn't care. I certainly probably wouldn't notice, but you would. In this case, its mostly about you.

When it comes to aesthetics, feel, tone, style, etc...... it should make you happy. I know that when I'm happy, I generally play better, so why not make yourself happy?

[MalcolmAmos]

That's what keeps the luthers in business. That's why there are different models and different specifications used to produce different instruments. We WANT the best.

Back in my banjo days I attended the John C. Campbell folk school in Brasstown, NC to learn clawhammer banjo. After lunch each day we had a show and tell from some of the old banjo guys that live in that area. What had been used to make some of those home made banjos was amazing. Possum skins and gourds, lumber off of old barns, string and spit, whatever was available found it's way into those ole time banjos. And, you know, every one of them made music and each had a unique tone.

If you enjoy the search, and can spare the money, have fun.

[lamonica78]

It is true that a lot of tone comes from the player him or herself, but a good bass with great tone will make any competent bassist better sounding. I spent years looking for the right bass for my style of play before picking up a Human Base oc.5. The quality of my play has not only improved in live settings (my bass cuts through crystal clear) but the quality of the recordings that I am working on now with my band is 10 x better than my previous effort simply due to the quality and amount of tonal options available.

[Phalex]

I notice tone, and tone is important. I really don't like the Hi-Fi active bass sound (I've tried to like Warwick and Modulus, I really have!) These days I really seem to be attracted to low and low mids.

At the end of the day, it's the sound guy that determines the ultimate tone of my bass, but the signal I'm sending him definitely fits with the tone that I want.

[LDonnie]

I can enjoy a good recording with a nice sounding bass. Live it matters less.

[Shmone]

My opinion is that the tone only matters to you,
My band members didn't notice any change in my tone when I bought a Warwick
after I've been using a Yamaha P-bass. so I think that tone is close to the appearance in it's importance,
It's there to make you want to pick up the instrument and play for hours!, when you see a ugly bass you won't want to pick it up, right?
same goes for the tone, when you like the tone, you'll want to play, when you hate it,
your motivation goes down.(IMHO ofc)

[Mojo-Man]

I always felt the ideal tone is the one that matched the sound you hear in your head.
Everyone hears things different.
Some, more lows, more meds, highs.
I like, woody, fat, high meds, P-style tone.
Amps, effects, string, sound man, will have an effect your tone.
Maybe the tone is in your hands?

[Phalex]

Originally Posted by Mojo-Man

Maybe the tone is in your hands?

I dunno....... If I hold my hands over my ears, all I hear is the ocean........ and this high pitched whine.

[the_hook]

Originally Posted by BananaKing

As for the Custom bass question:

Lets just say that you worked at a job where you had to make deliveries and drive your car all day. Eventually, you would probably upgrade various parts of your car to get it to perform just the way you want: Better Sound system, Nicer Upholstery, Steering Wheel cover, Tighten up the turning radius, New AC system, etc........

Most other people wouldn't care. I certainly probably wouldn't notice, but you would. In this case, its mostly about you.

When it comes to aesthetics, feel, tone, style, etc...... it should make you happy. I know that when I'm happy, I generally play better, so why not make yourself happy?

Well said.

[SpamBot]

Do you all really have bandmates that don't care how you sound? I want t sound good, my bandmates want me to sound good, and that makes tone important (for me at least)

let me play the devil's advocate and say if your bandmates don't care what you sound like...... They aren't listening to you.

Also, regarding tone vs technique: I'd rather have a nice sounding but simple basslne than an awesome bassline when I sounded like ass. My bandmates would agree with me.

[BillMason]

Tone is essential - it is what separates Neil Young from Tom Waits from Van Morrison from any average chump who can sing in key.

The audience may not be paying rapt attention to the bass, as the average non-musician can barely distinguish between the different instruments in a song. However, I do absolutely believe that given two otherwise identical performances/recordings, if in one of them someone has bad tone, your average non-musician listener would be able to tell which one they like more, and that one would be the one with "good" tone. That is, what is good to them.

Unlike pitch or timing or instinct for melody/harmony, tone is purely subjective - some people enjoy Neil Young's voice, some hate it. Some people like a good P bass through an Ampeg SVT/810 and some hate it.

We *do* obsess a lot over tone when it comes to gear, and we *should* obsess a lot more over tone when it comes to technique! It is mostly in the fingers, and it is mostly our developed technique habits, good or bad, that give our fingers the tone they have.

To the extent that good or bad tone is in your fingers, it is learnable, it is correctable, but it is almost impossible to copy someone else's tone. Just like improv style, with respect to the note choices you make... no one else is in your head when you make those choices. With tone, your fingers move differently from anyone else's (different rates of speed, different angles of attack, different patterns, etc.) and your fingers have more or less meat on their pads than anyone else's. You can't play with someone else's fingers

The technique instruction you will get from a pro teacher is to help you remove the bad habits you have that will result in what most refer to as "bad" tone. Having said that, many unschooled players, eg. John Lee Hooker, have many bad technical habits, and if they knew less about making music, their tone would be considered crap - but John Lee Hooker makes it work extremely well. Same as Willy Nelson.

But looking at gear - you get a lot more control over the non-subjective aspects of your tone with your gear choices, and quality instruments and amps will provide those non-subjective aspects in that they are proven to sound good - in the hands of someone who understands their instrument.

Having said that, Willy has been strumming that same beat to hell Spanish guitar for several decades, and he still sounds like Willy. If someone else were to play it, it would sound like a POS guitar with an extra hole in it.

[Sparkdog]

IME good tone only matters to the bass player, nobody else will notice. But if my sound is really happening that makes me play better and enjoy the gig a lot more.

However, BAD tone...that gets noticed, mostly in the form of comments like "the bass sounds like crap man!"

I'll go with option 1.

[varunkapahi]

when i had just started gigging and jamming, i'd visualize my tone constituing of two parts. the part which of tone which is masked by the mix and the other which would cut through. you need both to have a nice bottom and to lay an underlaying foundation for the part which cuts through. often to me a tone which didnt sound that nice alone would do much better in the mix. while doing my stage sound in the monitors i take it for granted that the FOH subs and the sound engineer would boost the lows to a certain degree and i'd need to cut through more on stage than in the foh sound to be able to play and hear best.

and yes tone does matter to me, that is if you can be heard first

[kraigo]

Follow your bliss. In my case I care that I like the sound, that I can hear what I'm playing and that I don't get complaints about my volume in the process. In my experience (yours will almost certainly not be the same) a lowly P-Bass does the job right.

What sounds good when soloed (i.e. I'm tweaking my tone at home) usually doesn't work well in the ensemble. In my experience it NEVER works in an ensemble. The humble P-Bass sounds OK alone, but in a band it just nestles right in.

So often bassists assume that a player is using a P-Bass "because they don't care about tone." I've been doing this for quite a while. I use a P-Bass because I _DO_ care. The P-Bass is the right tone consistently. At least for me. YMMV.

KO

[PJSShearer]

Originally Posted by Sparkdog

IME good tone only matters to the bass player, nobody else will notice. But if my sound is really happening that makes me play better and enjoy the gig a lot more.

However, BAD tone...that gets noticed, mostly in the form of comments like "the bass sounds like crap man!"

I'll go with option 1.

+1, although BAD tone is sometimes "inappropriate tone" - trying to sound like Chris Squire don't work when playing show tunes!!. I've found that BAD tone often equal "too loud" tone .