Examples of complex bass lines in blues recordings?

[scootron]

There's 40 years between my son and I. He also plays bass, and while we share a lot musically we also have very different ideas about a lot of things.

There is a chance we might become involved in a project together, that would involve me switching over to rhythm guitar, and it would be primarily a blues band. When we were talking about the pros and cons, though, he mentioned that although he hasn't played a lot of blues, he sees blues bass lines as being too simplistic.

My reply was that while blues chord progressions could seem very similar, there were infinite varieties of bass lines which could be played within those progressions. I told him that, in many cases, less is more, but there were plenty of challenging lines which might inspire him. He invited me to provide him some examples.

I have a decent blues library, so I'm putting him together a CD of "complex" bass lines from blues recordings. What would be essential in this regard? Which recordings might turn on a young bassist (14) to the full palette of blues bass?

Your suggestions would be appreciated.

[ster]

Originally Posted by scootron

There's 40 years between my son and I. He also plays bass, and while we share a lot musically we also have very different ideas about a lot of things.

There is a chance we might become involved in a project together, that would involve me switching over to rhythm guitar, and it would be primarily a blues band. When we were talking about the pros and cons, though, he mentioned that although he hasn't played a lot of blues, he sees blues bass lines as being too simplistic.

My reply was that while blues chord progressions could seem very similar, there were infinite varieties of bass lines which could be played within those progressions. I told him that, in many cases, less is more, but there were plenty of challenging lines which might inspire him. He invited me to provide him some examples.

I have a decent blues library, so I'm putting him together a CD of "complex" bass lines from blues recordings. What would be essential in this regard? Which recordings might turn on a young bassist (14) to the full palette of blues bass?

Your suggestions would be appreciated.

First tune that comes to mind as a "complex" blues bass line is Cream's version of "Crossroads".

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Anything by Canned Heat.

Come to think of it, most of the blues I listen to has basslines I have no way of duplicating, but for me the beauty of blues (and rock to some extent) is that it'll sound good even if some corners are cut .

Regards
Sam

[erock0138]

A song called be careful with a fool, by johnny winter. Tommy Shannon (SRV) was playing bass on this, awesome little chord progression.

[pacojas]

James Cotton had a fierce bass player. can't recall which album, but the bass player performs a surgery on those blues progressions.

(i'll chime in later after i scan my memory banks)

[SBrown]

I dont know if this is the direction you are going, but "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" by Charles Mingus (I like the Jeff Beck performance) might tickle his fancy. If you are looking for more straight ahead blues, I really like Bonnie Raitt's bassist, Hutch Hutchinson. My son was the same way when I was trying to get him to play drums with the blues band. I had to keep reminding myself that the Blues is very emotionally mature music, and a lot of kids just don't make the connection. I hope it works out, playing with a son/daughter is cool.

[phatbass]

Not trying to derail the thread; but the notes are simple but playing 'em RIGHT (as opposed to merely CORRECT) is the key.

To me, Blues has the same thing as Country - 99% of the hot chops players think they're gonna waltz in and show the hicks how it's done, then wonder why no-one's interested in 'em when they can't lock a simple groove down properly, and stomp all over the vocals with their licks.

Like life, knowing when to STFU (and, IME, that should be most of the time) is 90% of the battle.

[Marginal Tom]

One of my favorite blues songs is "Nobody Knows You When You're Down And Out," originally recorded by Bessie Smith in the 1920's, and covered by B.B. King, Derek and the Dominos and others. Most definitely not a standard blues progression.

[MikeBC]

I agree with Ster. Just about any Jack Bruce line with Cream is not as simple as it might sound at first. Another one that comes to mind and is not the easiest to sing while playing bass is "Politician".
YouTube - Politician by Cream

Also check out Hot Tuna. Here's Jack and Jorma covering "Hesitation Blues"
YouTube - Hot Tuna - Hesitation Blues - 1970

For a complex line on some slow blues check out "Hurts Me Too" on the Grateful Dead's Europe '72.

In a more traditional blues vein here is Koko Taylor singing "Can't Let Go".
YouTube - Can't Let Go - Koko Taylor; Live at the Woodlands (1993)

But ya know this too is a thing of beauty:
YouTube - B.B. King - Blues Boys Tune

[Deathblade Eric]

Admittedly, these are not very good examples of leaving space or holding back, but since you're attempting to convince a teenager, I've opted to trowel on the 'flash'.

Keith Ferguson very nearly not playing the same thing twice:

The Fabulous Thunderbirds - Extra Jimmies

Gerry McAvoy, riding shotgun for Rory:

YouTube - Rory Gallagher - When My Baby She Left Me - Live in Vienna - Am Hof (1987)

A song about fruit:

YouTube - Led Zeppelin - The Lemon Song

Politician again, but a good 'compare & contrast' exercise with the Cream version:

YouTube - Rory Gallagher with Jack Bruce - Politician

The mighty Chas Hodges (better known for his piano & vox in Chas 'n' Dave) absolutely tearing it up:

YouTube - Green Bullfrog - Walk A Mile In My Shoes

Leo Lyons, 'nuff said:

YouTube - Ten Years After "I May Be Wrong, But I Won't Be Wrong Always" the Marquee, 1983
YouTube - Ten Years After- Woodchopper's Ball, Live At The Marquee

And, in the Blues Corner... Colin 'Bomber' Hodgkinson:

YouTube - Spencer Davis Group feat. Colin Hodgkinson - Germany 2009
YouTube - Hodgkinson & Moody

TBH, apart from the last two, none of these are really that hard or complex (imo), although a couple will test your stamina. What is hard & complicated is holding back and knowing when to STFU. That can take years, (I'm only just getting that idea 25 years down the line ) but that's probably not a viable approach with a teen.

[Barely Oakley]

When I hear a Band yell out, 'Do You Want to Hear Some Blues??!!?' I immediately think, 'Uh Oh. I guess they're out of material'/ LOL. Many times Blues Basslines ARE boring and simplistic and something a new Bassplayer learns his first lesson. However, it really is not how complicated it, but how you play it. In guitar when you compare John McLaughlin and Duane Allmans you see the former plays at super speed but, 'TO ME' (opinion only so no flaming please) sounds like a computer is playing it and it's boring, but Duane is super tasteful, original, and full of dynamics. Bass also can be slow and super tasteful. simple but with dynamics and when they go into the 12/8 Double Time at 5:14 the walking Bass is both simplistic but tasteful and flawless.

YouTube - Allman Brothers / Stormy Monday

[jebmd]

There are so many that come to mind. But, a really fun one from Albert Collins is Too Many Dirty Dishes. Key of D.

[fearceol]

Originally Posted by scootron

he mentioned that although he hasn't played a lot of blues, he sees blues bass lines as being too simplistic.

IMO, your son is missing a basic point here, which is that blues is as much about the feel, as the notes played. Some players find this elusive, even if only playing root notes. Yes, blues bass lines can be simplistic, but that is generally what is required in this genre. There are lots of exceptions, as in some of the suggestions given here. If he feels he needs to play complex bass lines, just for the sake of it, perhaps blues is not a good choice of genre.

Just my 2c worth.

[scootron]

Originally Posted by fearceol

IMO, your son is missing a basic point here, which is that blues is as much about the feel, as the notes played. Some players find this elusive, even if only playing root notes. Yes, blues bass lines can be simplistic, but that is generally what is required in this genre. There are lots of exceptions, as in some of the suggestions given here. If he feels he needs to play complex bass lines, just for the sake of it, perhaps blues is not a good choice of genre.

Just my 2c worth.

I think feel is something that will develop with practice and with the passage of time. At 14, he doesn't have the richness of life experience to properly inform his blues playing. When I compare our two lives, I shudder at the thought of him being exposed to the things which shaped my early teen years. So, I guess I'll have to settle for him learning the skills side of the equation now, and picking up the rest as he goes.

For the reasons above, I disagree as to whether blues is a good choice of genre. Some experience the blues before they play them, while others play the blues before they understand what they are all about. As long as he can eventually put the two pieces together, he should be fine.

An example of what I am talking about would be Clapton. In the mid-60s, he had great blues technique, but was just a white, British, ex-art school kid who copied the blues greats of America. Later, he merged the technique with the feel, and greatness evolved.

[viper4000]

I had the same reserve when approaching the blues for the first time. Rather than going after traditional blues, maybe start with blues inspired music. The Allmans, Cream and Gov't Mule come to mind. Try the North Mississippi Allstars, Galactic or some Robert Randolph for a more modern appeal. He'll find his "more complex" bass lines, but will develop his ear for the blues turn arounds and progressions. Before you know it he'll probably grow an appreciation for the more standard, "boring" stuff seeing what the groups above where influenced by.

The main thing is having fun. You're starting a project with your son!!!!

[scootron]

Originally Posted by viper4000

I had the same reserve when approaching the blues for the first time. Rather than going after traditional blues, maybe start with blues inspired music. The Allmans, Cream and Gov't Mule come to mind. Try the North Mississippi Allstars, Galactic or some Robert Randolph for a more modern appeal. He'll find his "more complex" bass lines, but will develop his ear for the blues turn arounds and progressions. Before you know it he'll probably grow an appreciation for the more standard, "boring" stuff seeing what the groups above where influenced by.

The main thing is having fun. You're starting a project with your son!!!!

Great ideas, and something that completely slipped my mind...Gov't Mule! I took him to see them at the the New Orleans Jazz Festival last year, and he was pretty pumped up about it. I can pull a couple of things off "Dose" (like Thorazine Shuffle), plus I have a recording I purchased from their website of an absolutely smoking show they did in Little Rock in April '08, a night in which Grace Potter and the Nocturnals opened for them. 32.20 Blues would be a great one from that performance.

All the doctors in Hot Springs sure can't help me none!

[TomB]

Originally Posted by pacojas

James Cotton had a fierce bass player. can't recall which album, but the bass player performs a surgery on those blues progressions.

(i'll chime in later after i scan my memory banks)

I think the Cotton bass player you mean is (was, RIP) Charles Calmese, back in the '70's. I agree his playing is ear-opening. Another similarly impressive blues player is Johnny B. Gayden, who played on Junior Wells' last recorded offering among others, and is still active, as far as I know. Also, if you get to Chicago, check out the woman who plays with Sugar Blue (his wife)... all very technically impressive, and could change a budding bass player's mind about the genre.

[16notes]

Originally Posted by pacojas

James Cotton had a fierce bass player. can't recall which album, but the bass player performs a surgery on those blues progressions.

(i'll chime in later after i scan my memory banks)

Noel Neal has been Cotton's main man the last few decades
and is brutal. Great groove player and soloist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M63hNuZDTw0

Nice solo at 2:35 mark:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wmVKAgK2Qg

[Bluesdude5]

Originally Posted by phatbass

Not trying to derail the thread; but the notes are simple but playing 'em RIGHT (as opposed to merely CORRECT) is the key.

To me, Blues has the same thing as Country - 99% of the hot chops players think they're gonna waltz in and show the hicks how it's done, then wonder why no-one's interested in 'em when they can't lock a simple groove down properly, and stomp all over the vocals with their licks.

Like life, knowing when to STFU (and, IME, that should be most of the time) is 90% of the battle.

Yep.....what he said

[jj4001]

Originally Posted by phatbass

Not trying to derail the thread; but the notes are simple but playing 'em RIGHT (as opposed to merely CORRECT) is the key.

To me, Blues has the same thing as Country - 99% of the hot chops players think they're gonna waltz in and show the hicks how it's done, then wonder why no-one's interested in 'em when they can't lock a simple groove down properly, and stomp all over the vocals with their licks.

Like life, knowing when to STFU (and, IME, that should be most of the time) is 90% of the battle.

+1. Right?

I started playing with a really great blues singer and guitarist recently. Learning quickly that my job is to not crap all over the tunes with my left hand and to get people's butts shaking with the right hand.