Fender Shape Goes to Copyright Court AGAIN???

svtb15 · #1 09-11-2007, 09:41 PM

The news on the street is the Fender is going to be copyrighting/patenting the shape of their instrument bodies.
Years ago we may all remember when they patented or copy righted their headstock shape. But now they are at it with their body shape.

So i wonder what will happen to all the companies that are making better basses and guitars than fender such as Suhr, Sadowsky, Alleva Coppolo, Lakland, Yamaha, etc.
There must be hundreds of makers including low end makers.
They are trying to patent the top-bottom horn and round butt shape,,,, even Fodera would fit into that ..
And almost all those companies are doing it better than fender.

Rumor has it that Fender has already spent 3 million on the most prestigious law firm that hey could hire to tackle the matter..

Even Dinky Sized bodies that Sadowsky and Lull uses would become an infringement from what i understand.

I think Fender has gone overboard.

If they made a great product that sounded great for the professional players they would not have to worry about the 1% of the market that all the other companies combined can produce.
Fender is THEE largest manufacturer of electric guitars and basses in the world from what i have read..

There is a law firm in NY that happens to be my old music attorney that will be handling the fight against Fender and they are taking donations to help the fight.. It will cost alot.. http://musicesq.com/

I think the case goes to court in December. Maybe we can all have a voice in this because it will effect all of us to one extent or another.

CharlyG · #2 09-11-2007, 09:44 PM

If they would have enforced the design, like Rickenbacker, they wouldn't need to do this. Gibson and Fender are the ones at fault, and they are trying to make up for lost "time".

SundanceChile · #3 09-11-2007, 09:46 PM

svtb15 · #4 09-11-2007, 09:46 PM

From what i hear.. Gibson is in the suit Against Fender too.. They make the Valley Arts Guitars and basses which are based on Fender shapes.
I am not sure how many other builders are in it... i hope sadowsky is.. these independent builders need to prevail.

Disco_Gee · #5 09-11-2007, 09:48 PM

A quick google search showed nothing about this.

svtb15 · #6 09-11-2007, 09:49 PM

i heard it from a very good source in NY tonight.. it has been going on for years now.. but Fender is at it again adding the tele shape as well as the P bass, and J bass, etc.
I am sure this is not a false alarm on my behalf... just an early warning.
Here is an Old article on Forbes way before fender started its shenanigans again
http://www.forbes.com/manufacturing/...622fender.html

WarriorJoe7 · #7 09-11-2007, 09:53 PM

They can't patent the upper/lower horn and the rounded butt shape... those existed before fender right (well atleast the rounded butt did.)

Well singlecuts won't be infringements... But if Fender wins then I think someone could go patent frets (I am guessing that the first fretted instruments were in the 1900s sometime but I could be wrong.)

If Gibson lost the battle to PRS then that is precedent in court. i don't see how Fender could win... and if they do wouldn't it be on just the exact shape. That is a design patent.

Patents only last 17 years of protection. Design patents may be longer though but I don't think it is forever. Copyrights and trademarks are for much longer but aren't they just for the written word?

I know alot but not much of the fine details. Anyone care to enlighten us?

Jumpno · #8 09-11-2007, 09:55 PM

fender makes good quality instraments that many professinals use, i dont know why you are going on saying that they arent good quality... and why shouldnt they copyright what was their shape and other companys copied.

needmoney · #9 09-11-2007, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumpno

fender makes good quality instraments that many professinals use, i dont know why you are going on saying that they arent good quality... and why shouldnt they copyright what was their shape and other companys copied.

He didn't say they weren't good quality, some are, some aren't. He was saying there a lot of companies making basses based off this classic designs which are of higher quality than Fender, and incorporate features which some people might want, but can't get with a Fender. These are the companies which could suffer, and it would be a total crapshoot, especially for Sadowsky given their fanbase.

pstyle · #10 09-11-2007, 10:03 PM

I'm no legal expert, but I think Fender would have to go against each manufacturer separately.. I just don't see this happening.

svtb15 · #11 09-11-2007, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumpno

fender makes good quality instraments that many professinals use, i dont know why you are going on saying that they arent good quality... and why shouldnt they copyright what was their shape and other companys copied.

I guess that a difference of opinion.. I have played many loose neck joint, poorly cut nuts, mis aligned bridges, and electronics that the control dont work right out of the box Fenders than most folks.. And they are of recent 10 year period.. Including poor trussrod seating ... dont get me started on that one...
But i would like to stay on topic if we could about something that is current with this suit that will be going to court..
My good friend is one of the builders, Jimmy at Alleva Coppolo,, as well as Roger at Sadowsky and John Suhr..I have worked with them and bought their products for the last 20 years... I would hate to have to see them shut down...
Fender already did it to a manufacturer in Canada just recently regarding the body shape.. the small company could not afford the lawyering and went under...

basslyon · #12 09-11-2007, 10:05 PM

^^History Lesson for Jumpno

Fender was bought out and As part of the deal, Good old leo was disallowed from being involved with or designing instuments for other companies for a given period of time. There after he went of to partake in the music man venture and design the mighty stingray and later form G&L.

The point is post Leo, fender quality standards slid terribly. People still play them but they're are far from the bench mark of quality they once were.

How can they claim copyright for something they bought (not designed) some 30 years ago?

needmoney · #13 09-11-2007, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svtb15

Fender already did it to a manufacturer in Canada just recently regarding the body shape.. the small company could not afford the lawyering and went under...

Which company was this?

tedw · #14 09-11-2007, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svtb15

There is a law firm in NY that happens to be my old music attorney that will be handling the fight against Fender and they are taking donations to help the fight.. It will cost alot.. http://musicesq.com/

I clicked the link that you provided, and it did not indicate anything about the lawsuit... Am I missing something?

JAUQO III-X · #15 09-11-2007, 10:08 PM

I read the court transcripts on this issue with Fender and from what I read all any of the companies that Fender wants to sue has to do is minutely change their body shape or contour.

svtb15 · #16 09-11-2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumpno

fender makes good quality instraments that many professinals use, i dont know why you are going on saying that they arent good quality... and why shouldnt they copyright what was their shape and other companys copied.

most pros play custom shop Master Build Fenders.. not store stock..
I can tell you a story about a pair of CS fender j basses that was bought be a friend that plays bass with Lenny kravitz... he had to have them refretted the day he got them by a famous NY luthier to make them playable.. so dont start me on that one..

needmoney · #17 09-11-2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedw

I clicked the link that you provided, and it did not indicate anything about the lawsuit... Am I missing something?

It's for donations for the lawsuit supposedly.

svtb15 · #18 09-11-2007, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedw

I clicked the link that you provided, and it did not indicate anything about the lawsuit... Am I missing something?

no.. they are the lawfirm that is going against fender... it will be out in the news in a few weeks... but i heard about it tonight by the parties involved.. yeah im a blabber mouth

Jumpno · #19 09-11-2007, 10:10 PM

yes yes i know all that basslyon. along with the company they would have also bought the rights to the fender logo and desighn

needmoney · #20 09-11-2007, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X

I read the court transcripts on this issue with Fender and from what I read all any of the companies that Fender wants to sue has to do is minutely change their body shape or contour.

Even slight changes to body shapes/contours can drastically effect production costs/times, especially for companies using CNC, or outsourcing parts.