Fretless. Is it that some just can't hear it?

[JAUQO III-X]

There are a lot of bassist who say that fretless players are always out of tune.

I'm sure that that is the case on occasion but could for the most part it just comes down to the person who's listening to the fretless not fully understanding what they are listening to.


Fretted basses do have the tendency to play themselves.

[Joe Gress]

I think its the mwah and twangyness that most people perceive as out of tune. On an upright that trebley stuff is lost to the bottom end more, and therefore they seem more in tune than an electric. Its actually quite the contrary since that upright has waaaaay more wiggle room for error due to its size. Lol try tuning to an orchestra one day and a wind band the next.

[Shakin-Slim]

I think a wide vibrato could cause someone to think they were out of tune. Sometimes I play a little either side of the true note for colour, especially in the blues, just above a minor third and just below a major third. Maybe you're right and they don't get it.

[Stick_Player]

MOST people listen with their eyes.

Why else would there be a huge market for 'visual' tuners with blinking/flashing lights?

A foot n' half long tuner?



Geeze!

[Joe Gress]

Originally Posted by Stick_Player

MOST people listen with their eyes.

Why else would there be a huge market for 'visual' tuners with blinking/flashing lights?

A foot n' half long tuner?



Geeze!

Those things are hella easy to tune with though. Fact is if your not in tune, and your ear is not in tune to the music (even with just temperament), its gonna sound like crap. People don't want atonal if the music isn't meant to be that way.

[SamanthaCay]

I think most people can’t tell when a note is a ¼ step out let alone the variation caused by a finger on a fretless.
You think a fretted bass with 20.1 gear ratio tuners is in tune, wrong.

[AltGrendel]

I don't think people get it.

When I play my fretless, my goal is to play as accurately as possible for whatever fits the song.

[HaMMerHeD]

Yeah, I think the tonal difference is what gets people. They sound so very different from what people expect a bass guitar to sound like...

[Stick_Player]

Those things are hella easy to tune with though.

I agree with that. One could be clear across an arena and see that light show.

My point is that MOST people can't tune, and when they see a fretless neck they presume that's the reason.

[Marc Piane]

Well and part of it is fretted players who think they can pick up a fretless every now and again and play in tune. It's a skill unto itself.

He seemed to do ok

YouTube - Jaco Pastorius - Teen Town / Weather Report (1978) @ Live 720p HD

him too

YouTube - Marcus Miller - Fretless bass solo

and him

YouTube - Jonas Hellborg - Fretless solo

I could go on.

[Big B.]

Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X

There are a lot of bassist who say that fretless players are always out of tune.

I'm sure that that is the case on occasion but could for the most part it just comes down to the person who's listening to the fretless not fully understanding what they are listening to.


Fretted basses do have the tendency to play themselves.

After seeing how many guys in gigging bands cant even tell their fretted bass is out of tune I find it harder to take what many bassists say about intonation seriously. All kidding aside, it is also quite possible that most people who play a fretless really are frequently out of tune. It's not an easy thing to do and I find quality fretless players to be few and far between.

[BassChuck]

Well if you want perfection, MIDI waits for you. Some of the charm of variable pitch instruments (all fretless strings, trombone, voice, theremin) is the variation in pitch, tone, attack. I have recording of Mingus missing a few, so what?
If they are mistakes, well, welcome to the human race. If the mistake aren't too many, then good.... if you can make something good out of the mistakes... you're on your way to genius.
But to answer OP question, some people just can't hear it. Most people can, with practice hear within 1 or 2 cents (a cent is a hundredth of a semitone) with practice, and I'm pretty sure that the higher the frequencys in question, the easier it is to hear the beats that define out of tuneness. In other words its easier to hear a violin out of tune than a bass.
BTW, its not uncommon to hear classical DB players miss the mark every now and then.... folks, it just happens.

[perfektspace6]

Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X

There are a lot of bassist who say that fretless players are always out of tune.

I'm sure that that is the case on occasion but could for the most part it just comes down to the person who's listening to the fretless not fully understanding what they are listening to.

I think there is something to this. Personally, I think some players are so anal about having the most perfect intonation possible that anything less is unacceptable. This is something that is nearly impossible to achieve on a song to song basis let alone gig to gig. When playing live you move around, interact with the crowd, and sometimes make little mistakes at the expense of entertaining. No big deal.

Steve Bailey bears the brunt of this aggression. I am not bothered by his playing but he catches hell for intonation on a regular basis. The little inconsistencies are what make fretless so enjoyable to listen to for me. Of course, there is a threshold at which point it become "bad". I would be curious to hear a lot of the players that criticize Bailey, and intonation issues in general, play fretless themselves.

[afinalfantasy]

I think it's not the problem that most people can't hear the fretless bass, it's just that the tone some bassists make it sound like a normal fretted bass.

I kinda go for that sound, but prefer the fretless due to my skin being very sensitive to touch.

[JAUQO III-X]

Originally Posted by perfektspace6

I would be curious to hear a lot of the players that criticize Bailey, and intonation issues in general, play fretless themselves.

I agree.

I think that since the critics usually are putting themselves in the expert seat, that they should at least be able to show others how it should be properly played.

[Ric5]

The lower you play the more you can be slightly off. That is just the nature of how frequencies work and how our ears hear.

Also how you eq the bass makes a difference. Turning up mids and highs will make out of tune playing easier to hear. Turning up lows will do the opposite.

[raymondl3]

To my ears there are a couple of players who have made their careers entirely or partially on the fretless bass who seem to play consistently out of tune, meaning almost every note, especially in the upper range sounds a little out, while there are players like Jaco and Gary Willis who's pitch always sounds perfect to me.

[JAUQO III-X]

Originally Posted by raymondl3

while there are players like Jaco and Gary Willis who's pitch always sounds perfect to me.

And there are people who feel that they have their share of playing out of tune. Just as much as the other so called out of tune playing culprits.

[Marc Piane]

Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X

I think that since the critics usually are putting themselves in the expert seat, that they should at least be able to show others how it should be properly played.

That's critics in general though. How many times have we seen a critic pan an album or book or whatever when they certainly don't have the skills to do it themselves.

[raymondl3]

Originally Posted by JAUQO III-X

And there are people who feel that they have their share of playing out of tune. Just as much as the other so called out of tune playing culprits.

If they do they are stupid.