G.G. Allin on Jerry Springer

[Deluge Of Sound]

Firstly, The Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2LvZd_9aMU

Second, the relevance:
I think it's interesting, because this is what punk really was. No sideways hats and tight jeans in sight (I'm looking at you, Power Chord Academy banner), just Chaos, Rape, Murder, Stabbings, Rebellion, etc.

So, let's talk about G.G. Allin.

I consider myself a fan of his music, even though I think he's a psychopath. There are people in the audience that I think are more reprehensible than him (like the guy who answers the question "What is Rock 'N Roll?" With "Bon Jovi!" )

[brianrost]

I had just moved to Massachusetts and G.G. was always looking for band members (for reasons obvious to anyone who knows anything about him). I kept seeing his "bass player wanted" ads and I knew he was gigging all the time but I was too insecure about my playing at the time and decided not to call him.

In hindsight, it might have been an interesting audition

[bassbully]

Glad he's gone...sorry.

[bluestarbass]

I agree, alot of the stuff he did was purely for shock value. He didnt really do alot of the stuff he said. I agree also, he didnt do anything to people on the street. This was at a show, you went to his show cuz you know something crazy might happened. His message is lost becuase hes so over the top, but hes right, there shouldnt be rules in rock and roll.

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by bluestarbass

I agree, alot of the stuff he did was purely for shock value. He didnt really do alot of the stuff he said. I agree also, he didnt do anything to people on the street. This was at a show, you went to his show cuz you know something crazy might happened. His message is lost becuase hes so over the top, but hes right, there shouldnt be rules in rock and roll.

Ya but whats rape, crap, beating people up, stabbings etc have to do with R&R. The Sex and drugs i understand to a degree but thats over the top. He was a freak his music sucked and nobody even if you went to a show to watch should have a finger put on them unless they want it. He had no right...good riddence....all this IMO of course.

[Infernal Affair]

Man that Jerry Springer episode brings up so many memories. Talk about a blast from the past.

You know what? G.G. Allin won. He got exactly what he wanted: everyone's attention. Now he's remembered by people, better or worse.

I don't think it's what punk really was. That's open to a lot of debate, and I've been in more "What is punk?" discussions than I can even count. Punk has become a monster without a real face, engulfing anything and everything.

Remember that Ramones and other early punk bands wore tight pants, too.

[CrashBang]

Originally Posted by bassbully

Glad he's gone...sorry.

What a sad thing to say. It's not like he was Hitler or Saddam Huesain. He was a local preformer that was doing his shtick. It might not have been your thing but to be glad he is dead, that's just wrong.

G.G. in real life was a gentle, inteligent, caring person. To equate him with his on stage pesrona would be like saying Al Pacino was a murderous drug dealer because he played Tont Moyntoya in Scarface. People going to his shows knew what they were getting and we enjoyed the shows.

There are probably many artists that are real rapeists and scumbags, G.G. only played one on stage.

He is greatly missed by many, including me.

[thehurlatron]

If that guy was "rock & roll", I want to be in the "easy listening" gang.

What a tool. I don't wish death on people, or rejoice in their death, but the world is one step closer to better now...........

[jollygiantchris]

Originally Posted by brianrost

I had just moved to Massachusetts and G.G. was always looking for band members (for reasons obvious to anyone who knows anything about him). I kept seeing his "bass player wanted" ads and I knew he was gigging all the time but I was too insecure about my playing at the time and decided not to call him.

In hindsight, it might have been an interesting audition

You should have a guy I worked with was friend's with GG and played drums for GG at a couple shows from what I understand he usually got booted from the venues after the 2nd or 3rd song. It wasn't about the music it was about the performance and the message.

[Illbay]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

No sideways hats and tight jeans in sight (I'm looking at you, Power Chord Academy banner),...

Yeah, the PCA adverts are kinda annoying after awhile (they pay the bills, though, so we love 'em don't we TB'ers? )

But really, lay off the kid. He's A KID!! That's what they DO. They try their hardest to fit into their peer group by "being unique, just like all their friends." Their look is AFFECTED, but no more so in their way than my generation's in the 1970s, or my parents' in the 1950s.

If you're a kid, too, then I can somewhat understand; part of the game of "let's pretend we're mature" is to make fun of those of your peers who're slightly different than you, but enough different that you can point at them and say "hey it's them, not me!"

As far as the "punk romance" is concerned: The funny thing is the original punk school wasn't about ANYTHING. They weren't even about "nihilism," for that matter. They were about getting drunk, getting high, getting laid, and getting a gig.

Mr. Lydon himself would tell you "hey, kid, don't look at what WE did as some sort of social statement! We were just gettin' blasted!"

Anyone who's trying to make out like it's more than that, well, "never mind the bollocks."

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by CrashBang

What a sad thing to say. It's not like he was Hitler or Saddam Huesain. He was a local preformer that was doing his shtick. It might not have been your thing but to be glad he is dead, that's just wrong.

G.G. in real life was a gentle, inteligent, caring person. To equate him with his on stage pesrona would be like saying Al Pacino was a murderous drug dealer because he played Tont Moyntoya in Scarface. People going to his shows knew what they were getting and we enjoyed the shows.

There are probably many artists that are real rapeists and scumbags, G.G. only played one on stage.

He is greatly missed by many, including me.

I never said i was glad he was dead ...im just gald he's gone ...he killed himself or his lifestyle did. No he wasnt as bad as the examples you put on here but anyone who goes on TV or media promoting rape, violence and the screwball thoughts of that nutjob isnt a loss in my book ...as i said sorry.

Caring inteligent? To bad he didnt express this side to others he spewed hate,anger and in my book evel.

How do you know people knew what they were getting going to his show's? People might have gone for the shock value and watch not to be stabbed,raped, or have @hit throw on them....please tell me where this dolt gave the world entertainment value?

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by Illbay

Yeah, the PCA adverts are kinda annoying after awhile (they pay the bills, though, so we love 'em don't we TB'ers? )

But really, lay off the kid. He's A KID!! That's what they DO. They try their hardest to fit into their peer group by "being unique, just like all their friends." Their look is AFFECTED, but no more so in their way than my generation's in the 1970s, or my parents' in the 1950s.

If you're a kid, too, then I can somewhat understand; part of the game of "let's pretend we're mature" is to make fun of those of your peers who're slightly different than you, but enough different that you can point at them and say "hey it's them, not me!"

Aside from the fact that that bit of the post was a little more tongue in cheek than you took it for, I might as well respond...

That's not a kid, that's an advertisement. I was pointing out that the image to the left of your screen nine times out of ten is a far cry from G.G. Allin, a guy who, for better or worse, is one of the more notorious punk icons ever. No pointing and laughing over here.

...even though his tee-shirt does say "revolution" on it.

Now, for the second point:

Originally Posted by Illbay

As far as the "punk romance" is concerned: The funny thing is the original punk school wasn't about ANYTHING. They weren't even about "nihilism," for that matter. They were about getting drunk, getting high, getting laid, and getting a gig.

Mr. Lydon himself would tell you "hey, kid, don't look at what WE did as some sort of social statement! We were just gettin' blasted!"

Anyone who's trying to make out like it's more than that, well, "never mind the bollocks."

Sure, maybe The Sex Pistols weren't about social statements, that's probably because their manager didn't want them to be. Looking to the Sex Pistols for a general scope of what the Punk Movement was is like looking at George W. Bush for an example of a regular American. There are a lot of things that overlap, but loads of things that don't. The Clash, for example, was very political, and always had been. So was Discharge, So was Crass... Patti Smith predates the Pistols, but she's got a song on her first record called "Rock and Roll ******."
John Lydon can say whatever he wants, but when he says "we," he's referring to the Pistols, not the scene as a whole.

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by bassbully

I never said i was glad he was dead ...im just gald he's gone ...he killed himself or his lifestyle did. No he wasnt as bad as the examples you put on here but anyone who goes on TV or media promoting rape, violence and the screwball thoughts of that nutjob isnt a loss in my book ...as i said sorry.

Caring inteligent? To bad he didnt express this side to others he spewed hate,anger and in my book evel.

How do you know people knew what they were getting going to his show's? People might have gone for the shock value and watch not to be stabbed,raped, or have @hit throw on them....please tell me where this dolt gave the world entertainment value?

It's kind of hard to take you seriously when you misspell "intelligent," "too," and "evil." Not trying to be disrespectful, just pointing it out.

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by Infernal Affair

I don't think it's what punk really was. That's open to a lot of debate, and I've been in more "What is punk?" discussions than I can even count. Punk has become a monster without a real face, engulfing anything and everything.

Remember that Ramones and other early punk bands wore tight pants, too.

My phraseology is probably a bit strong, but I strongly believe that punk is a commitment to making the music you want to make and the convictions that stem from that (DIY recording, for example). It has nothing to do with tempo or even sound (I call Melvins and Flipper punk bands) but more of an overall attitude. G.G. Allin made the music he wanted to make and preformed the way he wanted to preform.

[Infernal Affair]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

John Lydon can say whatever he wants, but when he says "we," he's referring to the Pistols, not the scene as a whole.

John Lydon is also a certifiable douche. I agree with you, Deluge. The Sex Pistols were one of many punk bands, and all of them had different individual ideologies. I would hardly consider them the caliber which all punk is measured by, both musically and ideologically. Same with GG Allin. I commend him for taking the whole schtick so far even to his death, but I don't owe him anything nor care what he did in his lifetime.

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

My phraseology is probably a bit strong, but I strongly believe that punk is a commitment to making the music you want to make and the convictions that stem from that (DIY recording, for example). It has nothing to do with tempo or even sound (I call Melvins and Flipper punk bands) but more of an overall attitude. G.G. Allin made the music he wanted to make and preformed the way he wanted to preform.

You pretty much sum up my own views on punk, hence my monster without a face metaphor. It's huge and it defies description. I just didn't want to get into a whole debate on what punk is, as it will just end up in rather long discussion. What I didn't agree with was this:

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

just Chaos, Rape, Murder, Stabbings, Rebellion, etc.

To me it's DIY not DITSO (Do it to someone else).

[Illbay]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

...I strongly believe that punk is a commitment to making the music you want to make...

I'm sorry, but that credo fits any kind of music from Palestrina on down to the present day.

Stop trying to make it out to be more than it was. It was a bunch of guys who didn't play their instruments very well, just trying to get high and make a lot of noise.

If you enjoy it, that's fine. But turning into a shrine to individualism is going a mite far.

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

It's kind of hard to take you seriously when you misspell "intelligent," "too," and "evil." Not trying to be disrespectful, just pointing it out.

Sorry i type fast and need glasse's......damn i'm old and to tell ya the truth dont care if i spell right on TB. Dont take me or anyone serious over GG Allin nobody ever did or will.

[Deluge Of Sound]

Originally Posted by Infernal Affair

To me it's DIY not DITSO (Do it to someone else).

Yeah, It's not so much that I agree with that, but I was perusing the G.G. Allin movie for a soundclip while I was posting, and I kind of highlighted the things they were talking about on Jerry Springer.

Originally Posted by Illbay

Stop trying to make it out to be more than it was. It was a bunch of guys who didn't play their instruments very well, just trying to get high and make a lot of noise.

If you enjoy it, that's fine. But turning into a shrine to individualism is going a mite far.

What? What's that? I contested your point, and you're trying to tell me I'm wrong? I provided examples and dates, and you told me that I'm making it out to be more than it was? If you don't think many facets of the punk movement were politically motivated, you're clearly not educated on the matter. But I don't really expect you to know that much about the massive employment problems in England, or the disillusionment, or anything that would support my point and invalidate yours.


In fact, playing your instruments poorly, getting high, and making a lot of noise predates the punk movement. I think your parents might have called it "Rock and Roll."

EDIT: and as far as you quoting me goes, please respond to my whole thought, not just small segments. Thank you.

[Matt Till]

I think GG Allin's act was bull ****. He just wasn't as clever as he seemed to think he was. I guess I can on some level appreciate him as a "performance artist," since he did have a message of some relevance. But raping women? Come on, there is nothing artsy about that. I'm down with him punching people, throwing **** on people... that's fine, that **** in reality is no harm done... but rape, that has no message, that's just ****ed up.

[Illbay]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

But I don't really expect you to know that much about the massive employment problems in England, or the disillusionment, or anything that would support my point and invalidate yours.

Q: Why didn't the "punk movement" start in the USA during the Great Depression? In fact, what you had emerging from the Depression was some of the greatest Jazz music, and most uplifting films and plays, one could ever imagine.

It's context. A bunch of pampered folks who really don't KNOW what true hardship is, whining about the teeniest of inconveniences to their lives, and essentially acting out of sheer boredom, is what gives you "punk".

True hardship and suffering gives you "Dancing Cheek To Cheek," "White Cliffs of Dover" and "It's A Wonderful Life."