The "geezer syndrome"

[5stringDNA]

I was reading through the "bands you grew up with" thread and started thinking to myself- were the bands really THAT much better 5-10 years ago when I was growin' up (or 30 years ago for you seasoned folks), or am I just starting to come down with some "geezer syndrome" of sorts? It seems like every generation seems to think their music is so much better than the next generation's, and that if it's new it has to be crap. In specific: the radio- has the radio really become more narrow in it's marketing of music, or is it just us?
Anecdote: I coach peewee hockey and was arguing with one of the 11 year olds telling him that the "punk" band he liked was musically terrible and that back in the day music was a lot better, and the punk was really "punk" etc. It was a stupid argument with a elementary schooler, but you get teh point...

[Mudfuzz]

Nah, I think that it is about the same; if I think about it I can't name more than 5-6 [popular] great bands / artists from any period of time. I think that there will be great bands in the future, but like it always is you just have to sift through everything else to find the few that you dig.

[James Hart]

Originally Posted by 5stringDNA

It was a stupid argument with a elementary schooler, but you get teh point...

That is the point. IMHO

People who cannot hear the good in ANY current market is listening with a closed mind. I think music is steadily improving. The internet has opened up the world to very localised sounds and sights. I hear killer lines, grooves and tones all over the place.... even from bubble gum pop, new country & watered down goth metal punk core or whatever the flavor of the week is. Look at some of the unsung talent here on TB, upcoming masters of the craft taking the best of what they know and putting their own spin on it.

We think the stuff we grow up with is better because it is comfortable and safe and familar.... it's not better! Change is hard, we are creatures of habit... really we are predisposed to routine.

Labeling and/or pitting Art against Art is moot.

[Matthew Bryson]

Originally Posted by 5stringDNA

It seems like every generation seems to think their music is so much better than the next generation's, and that if it's new it has to be crap...

I think you hit the nail on the head there. My grandfather thinks that music has been crap ever sense the Beatles came over from England and ruined popular american music.

[5stringDNA]

Originally Posted by James Hart

That is the point. IMHO

That's what I was getting at James- There is music coming out regularly that is good stuff, just different, and it is easy to get hung up on the labels and such.
I am honetly curious as to whether the majority of TB'rs hold to the idea that stuff was better in the "good ole' days". The one thing I do think however, is that while the musicianship as a whole isn't really going down, the variety and new ideas coming up are not as frequent- it seems the musical gene pool is getting thinner and finding an "original" sound, let alone creating one, is becoming more difficult. The positive is that the amount of genre and style mixing has picked up a good deal in recent years and bringing some fresh stuff to the table. It is nearly always a good thing when people don't pigeonhole sounds as type A B or C.

[Floating teetH]

I don't know any people who will genuinely say that nothing new is good, but I can hardly stand anything that is popular amongst mtv viewers and the like. I think a lot of people stick to classic rock etc. because the focus nowadays, at least when it comes to nearly anything that is commercially successful , seems to be on making stuff offensive or otherwise contrivercial in some manner, and they don't know where else to look for what they consider wholesom or ideologically "pure." (I do not fall into this category, although I am very big on the classics)

What seems strange to me is not that people continue to increasingly appreciate music that has some sentimental appeal to them, but that people will say the only reason to listen to something recorded more than a few years ago is that you are "stuck" in some other decade. This seems about as sensible to me as saying, "the only reason to listen to any band from a country other than the one you live in is to pretend you're from some other country."

[Bard2dbone]

I had one of these conversations with my son(now 20) when we watched the Wedding Singer. He kept hearing these horrible old songs from the 80's (and one good one, done badly) and asked if ALL the music back then was that bad.

He didn't buy my explanation that it was a comedy and those songs were picked specifically because they were bad, but popular.

Then he said something so bizarrely ludicrous that my head tried to explode. "Well they wouldn't have been popular if they weren't the best you had at the time." He totally didn't believe anything I told him about marketing to the lowest common denominator. He truly believed (at the time, he's better now) that popularity could be a true and useful indicator of quality.

I laugh myself nearly incontinent thinking about that statement, frequently.

[Kelly Lee]

How does someone judge the quality of a music piece anyway? Quality is purely subjective.

Anyways, I think most like the music from their generation the best is because of a sentimental attachment to our youth. It reminds us of great times at parties, with girls, or just cruising. Ah, those were the days.

I personally enjoy alot of the new music. No its not the same as the 80's but, OH WELL! I may be becoming a "geezer" but I'm young at heart!

[trog]

There's still good stuff; and I think there always will be. It's just that all the popular music at the moment (Here in the UK, anyway) sucks a farmyard animal's rude bits.

I await the day all this awful pop/dance/rap stops being popular.

[SnoMan]

Just tell me I'm not the only person who read this expecting to hear something about Geezer Butler....

My take would be this. The music people listen to general amounts to how well they can relate to it. Young people generally don't want to relate to older people, and vise versa. Yes theres plenty of exceptions, but you can see the trend here.

Ya know, I really thought I had something thoughtful in mind...but no... that just seems rather blunt, heh.

[BassGod]

Originally Posted by SnoBassMan

Just tell me I'm not the only person who read this expecting to hear something about Geezer Butler....

My take would be this. The music people listen to general amounts to how well they can relate to it. Young people generally don't want to relate to older people, and vise versa. Yes theres plenty of exceptions, but you can see the trend here.

Ya know, I really thought I had something thoughtful in mind...but no... that just seems rather blunt, heh.

Heh, I was expecting a Geezer Butler thread too.

Graeme

[IvanMike]

i find myself bored with the same old music so i keep listening to new music. it is true that the commercialism (that has always existed) is becoming more and more powerful, but the internet has opened up more "indie/underground" stuff. There's not a lot of music i don't like. lately i've been on an NPR classical music kick.

[_Unregistered_]

Rock has stood the test of time. Interestingly, I think that now the "geezer syndrome" has less validity than it used to. I find that I can listen a lot of what my 12-year-old finds to be good, and vice-versa. This was far less the case when I was a kid.

If the old stuff from 20-30 years ago was really so awful, why is everyone sampling and re-recording all that old "crap"? Spare me from the constant recycling - TV commercials the worst offenders. Zep for Caddy? Ick.

Can't think of something new to follow your top-10 hit with? Cover some 25-year-old hit. Hey, if it was a hit once, at least you know it's a hit SONG. Seems like a safe bet. Sadly, like most Hollywood "remakes", recycled songs rarely bring anything new to the table, but may actually serve the world the best by sending you back to your record collection for the original version if just to remember how much better IT was.

Fact is, music is today more "recycled" than it's perhaps ever been...because frankly, it hasn't really changed all that much. Rock has kinda settled in as being "everyone's music". Heavy rock tunes that used to make old people scoff now grace Muzak for your shopping enjoyment. I guess those who labelled it a "passing fad" musta been just a tad off the mark, huh?

Sure, there has been "new" forms of music to have emerged; rap, punk, etc. ...but some might even argue that the Kinks were kinda punk. I guess the more music changes the more it remains the same...

It's only 11 notes, after all.

[l0calh05t]

Originally Posted by M.Gilberto

[...]
It's only 11 notes, after all.

In western music... lets just start playing microtonal music

[JimK]

Originally Posted by James Hart

People who cannot hear the good in ANY current market is listening with a closed mind. I think music is steadily improving.

On a whole-
I don't hear music(Pop/Rock/R&B) as "steadily improving". Same, too for Jazz.
FWIW, I really had a closed mind 25 years ago...basically, anything other than Jazz sucked.
I do see myself as an eclectic listener & player; those that know me won't disagree.

We think the stuff we grow up with is better because it is comfortable and safe and familar.... it's not better! Change is hard, we are creatures of habit... really we are predisposed to routine.

Actually, I find MUCH of today's Rock/Pop/R&B as "comfortable & safe & familiar". Been there, done that...a rehash of what was done years ago, only watered down even more.
To me, what makes some of the 'old' stuff still happenin' & relevant TODAY...to my ears, the musicians were pushing the envelope & playing with some edge.

[The Golden Boy]

Originally Posted by James Hart

People who cannot hear the good in ANY current market is listening with a closed mind. I think music is steadily improving. The internet has opened up the world to very localised sounds and sights. I hear killer lines, grooves and tones all over the place.... even from bubble gum pop, new country & watered down goth metal punk core or whatever the flavor of the week is.

I have no doubt there is good music wherever you turn, but to say music is steadily improving? I started really becoming aware of music in the late 70's early 80's. While some of that stuff is crap, a higher percentage of what's "new" since the mid-late 90's has had a higher crap potential than any time before us (except, perhaps the very early 60's). I can't honestly believe in 10 years anyone's going to give a rip about Creed, Korn, Godsmack or Evanescence- there's not a lot of material out that's future "classic" worthy.

Here's the Billboard top 200 from Dec 1999

http://billboard.com/bb/charts/ago/r...=5&which=bb200

Here's Dec 1994-

http://billboard.com/bb/charts/ago/r...10&which=bb200

And Dec 1989-

http://billboard.com/bb/charts/ago/r...15&which=bb200

Tell me how much stuff you really care about (even better, try to remember the "hits" on those records) on those lists and say music is progressively getting better...

[The Golden Boy]

While I am old and crochety, I still take pride in that I don't wear a belt and suspenders at the same time...

[P. Aaron]

Originally Posted by JimK

On a whole-
I don't hear music(Pop/Rock/R&B) as "steadily improving". Same, too for Jazz.
FWIW, I really had a closed mind 25 years ago...basically, anything other than Jazz sucked.
I do see myself as an eclectic listener & player; those that know me won't disagree.

Actually, I find MUCH of today's Rock/Pop/R&B as "comfortable & safe & familiar". Been there, done that...a rehash of what was done years ago, only watered down even more.
To me, what makes some of the 'old' stuff still happenin' & relevant TODAY...to my ears, the musicians were pushing the envelope & playing with some edge.

What I miss most is a sense of style. I realize that even the classics I enjoy some producer had the band "cleaned up" and "coached" for the best possible performance. But it still seemed to me that there was some kind of regional style to the bands or an artists sound.
The "LA Sound" didn't sound like New York, Memphis, Detroit, or Nashville. While there are differences in today's music, (I'm talkin' the stuff I hear on the radio) songs and artists today don't seem as far apart individually or stylistically.

[bloodandwhiskey]

No matter what kind of msuic you listen to there will be new bands that are putting out good stuff. but on the whole maintstream music goes though trend shifts. For better or for worst thats what happens. Most people just look at what's going on the mainstream or the music industry and firgure that music is dead.

Muscians have no place in the music industry

[bmc]

There is a lot of good new music out there. In some ways fresher than older stuff. Just have to open your mind to it.