Gene Simmons: "Sue All Filesharers."

[Deluge Of Sound]

Kiss star Gene Simmons wants to sue everyone in the world who’s ever shared music, saying he’d have their homes and cars taken off them.

Speaking at a TV business convention, which he describes as a “free consultation,” he describes P2P users as a small hole which caused a big ship to sink, or a cute fox who killed all the chickens because the farmer didn’t kill it.

Simmons says: “Make sure there are no incursions. Sue everybody. Be litigious. Take their homes, their cars. Don’t let anybody cross that line.

“The music industry was asleep at the wheel and didn’t have the balls to sue every fresh-faced college kid who downloaded material. And so now we’re left with hundreds of thousands of people without jobs – there’s no industry.”

Statistics suggest that trade body the RIAA spent $16million chasing 20,000 people through the courts, resulting in recovery of $391,000. If that were scaled across the 60million P2P users in the US, they would have to spend $48billion and retrieve just $1.1billion

But Simmons, who says his favourite Kiss product is the one which makes the most money, insists it would make good business sense and doesn’t believe the industry should be fooled into thinking filesharers are anything but thieves.

He explains: “There’s a ship in the water. Some guy comes up to the captain and says, ‘We have a hole.’ The captain asks, ‘How big is the hole?’ The sailor replies, ‘We’ll probably only get a glass of water in a whole day.’

“Well, this moron is either going to say, ‘Don’t worry about it,’ or he’s going to plug the hole then and there – or by the end of that journey the ship will sink.”

He puts it another way, telling the story of a farmer who found a baby fox stealing chicken eggs, but didn’t kill the thief because it was too cute.

“But that little fox went home with a free egg,” Simmons says, “And told all the other little foxes about it. Then the foxes overran the farm, killed all the chickens and took all the eggs.

“The farmer lost his farm. His wife divorced him and went with a smarter farmer. The kids ran off because the spineless farmer didn’t have enough sense to kill the fox. The trucks that delivered the chickens, the stores that sold them – they’re all out of business.”

Simmons finishes: “All because of one goddamn cute little fox. So don’t let any cute little foxes get near your henhouse.

On behalf of myself, and only myself... welcome to the free market, Gene. Your business model didn't work, and so it sank.

[Baron Von Vik]

Statistics suggest that trade body the RIAA spent $16million chasing 20,000 people through the courts, resulting in recovery of $391,000. If that were scaled across the 60million P2P users in the US, they would have to spend $48billion and retrieve just $1.1billion


Idiocy.

[abcdefranklin]

...Greed

[colcifer]

It's not a problem with the business model (he's really one of the best business men out there), it's a problem with society's lack of respect for intellectual property. Unfortunately, this thread will soon be consumed by name calling and **** yous so I'll excuse myself...

[Crazyeelboy]

Actually, I don't think it was stupid. These cases were not designed to make "profits" but rather to deter further infringement. So, the actual recovery of damages is not the real goal.

Put yourself in the position of the record companies. All of a sudden, people can steal your product with apparent impunity - what do you do? They tried one approach, which is to try to make examples of some people to deter others. That didn't seem to work, so they gotta try something else (or something in addition). I cannot blame them for trying to do something.

Re the comment on the business model - yes, it is clear that technology and a pervasive attitude amongst many consumers that it is OK to steal music has interrupted the music industry and it is unclear as to how the industry will work into the future, but Gene is correct in saying that widespread theft has gutted the industry. Without some way to make money from making records, people will just simply stop doing it and we'll have less quality music to choose from.

[SnakeKappele]

If the music industry charged a reasonable price and made a quality product (more than two good songs on a CD), people would not have started stealing the good stuff in the first place.

This is not to say that stealing is right, but I can understand why it started (and so do they!). I also believe that the people downloading these songs would not have spent the money to buy them even if they couldn't download them for free.

[Deluge Of Sound]

Personally, I think that, because of filesharing specifically and the internet in general, it has become much easier to find quality music.

That said, I don't condone theft. I pay for my music, if I'm able to.

[Andysalina5]

Damn, all respect for Gene Simmons down the drain. File sharing can never be stopped, Gene. I'm not a KISS fan either way so I won't be stealing his eggs

[stevellss]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

Personally, I think that, because of filesharing specifically and the internet in general, it has become much easier to find quality music.

That said, I don't condone theft. I pay for my music, if I'm able to.

Agreed, I buy as much music as I can afford, and I download too. As long as you buy records or any merchandise from a band, you don't really need to feel guilty about downloading because those of us putting our money into the industry are the ones keeping it alive whether we download music or not.

In my opinion, nobody should make millions of dollars off of music. A living wage that you can support a family with should be enough, maybe the idea of being a rockstar is dead. Maybe the integrity of rock and popular music will improve as a result of the industry's decline.

[Deluge Of Sound]

I've got to clarify that one--I buy music if it's in print, in a "hard" format--vinyl, CD, etc.

I'll download something if its not in print, because I don't want to pay secondhand/collector's prices, I want to listen to the album.

[SnakeKappele]

Maybe the record companies should share more of the profits with the artists. People don't want to hurt the artists but they don't mind hurting "the big evil record companies."

I know a lot of people who do feel this way. Usually the same people who would stick it to an insurance company.

[IncX]

im willing to pay for any music i can get ... be it downloaded or in a CD shop ...

the thing is, its just too much of a hassle... you have to DL i-tunes, you have to sign up to this and that, etc.

as for CDs, they usually dont reach my country ... since good bands/individuals nowadays are usually independent and are usually only good with music and not that good with the business aspect of it (i.e. distribution).

and yes, it also sucks buying a CD only to have one good song in it

[JPSBassist]

Originally Posted by Deluge Of Sound

Personally, I think that, because of filesharing specifically and the internet in general, it has become much easier to find quality music.

Totally true. The internet has opened up a venue for hundreds of thousands of aspiring musicians who otherwise wouldn't have a chance of being heard.

I like what Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails) is doing. He gives away his music free on his website. If you want to buy a CD that you can play, he sells them dirt cheap. And he offers special download packages with extra content for a few dollars.

The guy is brilliant. He knows people will rip his cds and share the MP3 files of it... so why fight it. Instead of acting like a first class entitled schmuck (Gene and I are both Jews so I can call him that :-) and bemoan an antiquated system that is abusive to writers and new talent... Trent has tried to figure out ways to engage his fans.

He also gives the multi-track files of his music... that's right... the building blocks of his songs (heresy I think someone at EMI called it) and he invites his fans to remix, upload and share their new creations.

Gene isn't even a schmuck. His antics border on that of being a paskudnik. Look it up. It's bad.

He's irrelevant, he's just to high on his own supply to realize that his prime is already dead, buried and petrified. The dude is a fossil. Ignore him.

[phatbass]

Or put out a product good enough so that people want to buy it...

[somegeezer]

I download music I wouldn't buy. Sometimes I find something I actually like. One day, when I'm actually making a good wage, I'll buy all the good music on a CD.

[colcifer]

I'm back (briefly; I tire of these threads easily).

I don't buy the whole overpriced thing. Some what's-his-face (guitarist from a band I don't care for) put out a quadruple album's worth of music for less than ten bucks and let you download 7 tracks for free. People still stole it. That's about as cheap as you can make it and if there are only to good songs on an album, how is it worth stealing?

Also, the entitled and greed arguments are complete bull and amount to nothing more than namecalling. Just because I choose to charge a price for something doesn't mean I feel entitled to your money nor does feeling it's worth more than you make me greedy. However, the mentality that one should be able to take whatever they wish, tangible or not, giving nothing in return, is one of entitlement and greed.

This (http://www.creators.com/a-note-from-gary-larson.html) is quite compelling.

I hope this doesn't come across as up-on-a-pedestal (though mine is quite tall so if you join me, bring a coat ) but this is something I care a lot about.

[ghostsontheroad]

Solution to the record industry: Buy Vinyl, download what you want.

[Baron Von Vik]

Originally Posted by JPSBassist

Totally true. The internet has opened up a venue for hundreds of thousands of aspiring musicians who otherwise wouldn't have a chance of being heard.

I like what Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails) is doing. He gives away his music free on his website. If you want to buy a CD that you can play, he sells them dirt cheap. And he offers special download packages with extra content for a few dollars.

The guy is brilliant. He knows people will rip his cds and share the MP3 files of it... so why fight it. Instead of acting like a first class entitled schmuck (Gene and I are both Jews so I can call him that :-) and bemoan an antiquated system that is abusive to writers and new talent... Trent has tried to figure out ways to engage his fans.

He also gives the multi-track files of his music... that's right... the building blocks of his songs (heresy I think someone at EMI called it) and he invites his fans to remix, upload and share their new creations.

Gene isn't even a schmuck. His antics border on that of being a paskudnik. Look it up. It's bad.

He's irrelevant, he's just to high on his own supply to realize that his prime is already dead, buried and petrified. The dude is a fossil. Ignore him.

Thank you.

So tired of Bentley-driving suited dipsh**s crying about how much money they're losing from dudes downloading the only good song on an album. We used to record them off the radio; I suppose we can resort to doing that again. WHATEVER.

Stop whining, Gene, nobody feels sorry for you. Or Lars Ulrich.

[syciprider]

Originally Posted by SnakeKappele

If the music industry charged a reasonable price and made a quality product (more than two good songs on a CD), people would not have started stealing the good stuff in the first place.

So having a free market that allows people to spend their money as they wish makes stealing okay? Will putting say, eight good songs on a CD make thieves go away too?

Originally Posted by stevellss

Agreed, I buy as much music as I can afford, and I download too. As long as you buy records or any merchandise from a band, you don't really need to feel guilty about downloading because those of us putting our money into the industry are the ones keeping it alive whether we download music or not.

I bought the t shirt therefore I am entitled to steal.

In my opinion, nobody should make millions of dollars off of music. A living wage that you can support a family with should be enough, maybe the idea of being a rockstar is dead. Maybe the integrity of rock and popular music will improve as a result of the industry's decline.

Integrity of a music genre known for excesses. Priceless.

[Qvist]

Originally Posted by ghostsontheroad

Solution to the record industry: Buy Vinyl, download what you want.

Couldn't have said it better. Gene has done good for himself, but he's too old-fashioned and greedy that he cannot see that what worked for him in the old days will NEVER work again. Something radical has to be done.

I think all entertainment (movies, theater, music, sports, etc.) should be paid through taxes, I wouldn't mind paying extra for that, but I guess that's just too damn "socialist"... That way there would be no way to actually steal, AND people will be paid for their products.. Just by their government, and not their consumers.