Gibson & The Feds Go At It Again

[SurferJoe46]

Gibson Guitar Corp. is claiming the Obama administration wants more of its woodwork done overseas, as a bizarre battle heats up between the government and one of the country's most renowned guitar makers.

Court documents help explain the root of the tree dispute. According to search warrants associated with the latest raid, federal agents in June intercepted a shipment of Indian ebony apparently bound for Gibson in Tennessee. The documents noted that Indian law "prohibits the export of sawn wood," which can be used for fingerboards -- but does not prohibit the export of "veneers," which are sheets of woods that have already been worked on.

The search warrants alleged that the intercepted shipment was "falsely declared" as veneer, something that would have been legal. However, the documents said the ebony was in fact unfinished "sawn wood," supposedly illegal.

This led to the raid on Gibson facilities late last month.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...#ixzz1WxXVdQBD


Read more: Gibson: Feds Want Guitar Woodwork Done By Foreign Labor | FoxNews.com

[colcifer]

Do you have a reliable source for that?

[SurferJoe46]

You don't like Fox News? I read it there, but if you put the first line of any of their news stories in quotation marks and enter it in your Google engine, you'll find other sources for the same story.

I think Fox would not prevaricate* on this article though.

* - lie

[sandmangeck]

Originally Posted by colcifer

Do you have a reliable source for that?

+1

[calebbarton]

Its also in the Wall Street Journal

Guitar Frets: Environmental Enforcement Leaves Musicians in Fear | Postmodern Times - WSJ.com

[colcifer]

Owned by the same people.

[Munjibunga]

Fretboards are veneers. Thick veneers, but veneers nonetheless. OK semanticists, fire away.

[Lonesomedave]

+ 1,000,000

to FOX NEWS!

FAIR & BALANCED

love 'em; hate the rest



ps- Colcifer- so you doubt the WSJ...maybe if you heard it from Chris Matthews or Keith Olbermann?....LOL

[4001]

I think we're getting to the bottom of this.
Sorry to inject politics but it is what it is....


CEO of Gibson Guitar a Republican donor; Democrat competitor uses same wood

On Thursday, the iconic Gibson Guitar Corporation issued a press release stating that government officials raided their Tennessee manufacturing facility over warrants concerning the legality of the importation of wood purchased from India that they use in their world famous guitars. The wood–which is certified and regulated by the Forest Stewardship Council–is not illegal, but rather subject to a domestic law in India frowns upon the processing of this wood by non-Indians. (Gibson uses American labor for the processing.)

Gibson’s press release claims that, while this incident marks the second raid of their facility in around two years, this is the first of the raids to cost the company time and resources, as they needed to shut down operations. It seems as though this was all for naught.

The release read:

The Federal Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. has suggested that the use of wood from India that is not finished by Indian workers is illegal, not because of U.S. law, but because it is the Justice Department’s interpretation of a law in India. (If the same wood from the same tree was finished by Indian workers, the material would be legal.) This action was taken without the support and consent of the government in India.

On August 24, 2011, around 8:45 a.m. CDT, agents for the federal government executed four search warrants on Gibson’s facilities in Nashville and Memphis and seized several pallets of wood, electronic files and guitars. Gibson had to cease its manufacturing operations and send workers home for the day, while armed agents executed the search warrants.

Gibson has fully cooperated with the execution of the search warrants.

The fact that the government would issue warrants based on their interpretation of another country’s laws is laughable–and scary–in and of itself, but that they would demonize an American, non-unionized (coincidentally, I’m sure) company for something that isn’t even a crime (especially not in the American lawbooks) is a gross misjustice. Keep in mind that the Indian government itself wasn’t involved in the Gibson warrants and raid.

This unfortunate event begs the question, Why Gibson?

Putting aside the presumably misguided motivation to enforce another sovereign nation’s laws, why would a homegrown American company be the target of the Department of Justice in the first place?
It’s worth pointing out that Henry E. Juszkiewicz, Gibson’s Chief Executive Officer, is a donor to a couple of Republican politicians. According to the Open Secrets database, Juszkiewicz donated $2000 to Rep. Marsha Blackburn (R-TN07) last year, as well as $1500 to Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-TN). Juszkiewicz also has donated $10,000 to the Consumer Electronics Association, a PAC that contributed $92.5k to Republican candidates last year, as opposed to $72k to Democrats. (The CEA did, however, contribute more to Democrats in the 2008 election cycle.)

When warrants as ridiculous such as these are issued and executed, there appears no other reason than because the company or individual at hand is being targeted, not because there is any sort of wrongdoing. As a company, Gibson is a legendary. They’ve done nothing wrong, except, apparently, deigning to have a Republican CEO.

The plot thickens, however.

One of Gibson’s leading competitors is C.F. Martin & Company. The C.E.O., Chris Martin IV, is a long-time Democratic supporter, with $35,400 in contributions to Democratic candidates and the DNC over the past couple of election cycles. According to C.F. Martin’s catalog, several of their guitars contain “East Indian Rosewood.” In case you were wondering, that is the exact same wood in at least ten of Gibson’s guitars.

The Gibson facility wasn’t raided over allegations of tax evasion, charges of embezzlement, or even something as drab as child labor. Not even close. It was raided over what the DOJ deems an inability to follow a vague domestic trade law in India (one that apparently the Indian government didn’t seem too concerned about enforcing) regarding a specific type of wood. Not illegal wood, just wood with obscenely specific procedural guidelines.
Stand with Gibson: They have the Law on their side, just not the government.
CEO of Gibson Guitar a Republican donor; Democrat competitor uses same wood - Landmark Report

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Fretboards are veneers. Thick veneers, but veneers nonetheless. OK semanticists, fire away.

I think it's a stretch to say a fretboard is a veneer. A veneer is a very thin slice of wood. A typical wood top or cap is as thick as a fretboard but never as thin as a "veneer" which could be 1/42" thick vs 1/4" thick for a fretboard or wood top or cap.

[Lonesomedave]

Originally Posted by 4001

I think we're getting to the bottom of this.
Sorry to inject politics but it is what it is....



The Gibson facility wasn’t raided over allegations of tax evasion, charges of embezzlement, or even something as drab as child labor. Not even close. It was raided over what the DOJ deems an inability to follow a vague domestic trade law in India (one that apparently the Indian government didn’t seem too concerned about enforcing) regarding a specific type of wood. Not illegal wood, just wood with obscenely specific procedural guidelines.
Stand with Gibson: They have the Law on their side, just not the government.
CEO of Gibson Guitar a Republican donor; Democrat competitor uses same wood - Landmark Report

agree 100%

[emor]

[Lonesomedave]

Hah! apparently Gibson isn't going to take this lying down.

i just got back from Kroger (where i had been buying some buttermilk to make my family biscuits this morning). and there before me was a big pile of Tennesean fishwrappers (the Tennessean is nashville's only "newspaper")

right there above the fold and taking up most of the first page was the headline and story

"GIBSON GOES ON THE OFFENSIVE"

It almost made me want to buy one, but i just came back home and i will finish the biscuits and then read it online.

apparently Chicago-style arm-breaking politics has spread beyond Chicago.

here is the link below to the nashville story....just out today.

Gibson goes on the offensive | The Tennessean | tennessean.com

[SurferJoe46]

Not a Gibson fan - but any time a ruling political party can besmirch and cause grief to someone or something that doesn't meet it's own political agenda --- is just wrong.

On the surface, it surely appears to be wrongly motivated.

[coreyfyfe]

Originally Posted by 4001

The fact that the government would issue warrants based on their interpretation of another country’s laws is laughable–and scary–in and of itself

Politics aside, the 2008 amendments to the Lacey Act include a provision stating that it is illegal for a US company to import wood that was in any way harvested against the law in it's country of origin.

The Lacey Act now makes it unlawful to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire,
or purchase in interstate or foreign commerce any plant, with some limited exceptions,
taken in violation of the laws of a U.S. State, or any foreign law that protects plants. The
Lacey Act also makes it unlawful to make or submit any false record, account or label
for, or any false identification of, any plant."

Gibson, by purchasing wood not fully manufactured by Indian workers, as per Indian law, and then classifying that wood as a veneer instead of an unfinished product, violated that law. Seems pretty clear cut. They want to make it something political, but to me that just seems like they're crying wolf to distract from the fact that they were clearly violating the law.

[Kinetic Shadow]

Being an inquisitive sort of guy, I decided to do some basic research to see what made Gibson different from other "major" instrument manufactures that are based in and manufacture in the U.S.

I started with Tennessee and found that it is a right to work state, no forced unionization. Turns out that a large number of other US manufactures are not in right to work states. These include B.C. Rich, Carvin, Danelectro, Fender, G&L, Gretsh, Guild, Lakland, Martin, Modulus, Music Man, PRS, Rickenbacker and Taylor.

Not jumping to any conclusions or connecting any dots, just posting what I found as I thought it was interesting.

[Lonesomedave]

COREYFYFE:
"Gibson, by purchasing wood not fully manufactured by Indian workers, as per Indian law, and then classifying that wood as a veneer instead of an unfinished product, violated that law. Seems pretty clear cut. They want to make it something political, but to me that just seems like they're crying wolf to distract from the fact that they were clearly violating the law."

not clear at all.... only CLEAR to someone with a political agenda to hurt someone or some company who does not toe the line.

SUPPORT GIBSON!

[onosson]

Originally Posted by coreyfyfe

Politics aside, the 2008 amendments to the Lacey Act include a provision stating that it is illegal for a US company to import wood that was in any way harvested against the law in it's country of origin.

Without jumping to any conclusions on this particular case, I have to say that it is very nice to see US laws in place that try to ensure that US companies follow local regulations rather than ignore them. I would go so far as to say that is a very good thing.

[Lonesomedave]

Originally Posted by Kinetic Shadow

.....

I started with Tennessee and found that it is a right to work state, no forced unionization. Turns out that a large number of other US manufactures are not in right to work states. These include B.C. Rich, Carvin, Danelectro, Fender, G&L, Gretsh, Guild, Lakland, Martin, Modulus, Music Man, PRS, Rickenbacker and Taylor.

Not jumping to any conclusions or connecting any dots, just posting what I found as I thought it was interesting.

+100




ps- edit--ONOSSON--what are the fretboards of YOUR basses made from? just asking

[254 stringer]

Since the US is the world police why do we not go to India and raid the company that sold and shipped the wood to Gibson they also violated the law.

It does seem that there is some political agenda here why is this wood not stopped
in customs. It made it all the way to the Gibson plant before it was confiscated. Does anybody check what comes into this country?