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08-26-2011, 08:01 AM
|  | Supporting Member | | Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ukiah, California | | | Gibson Guitar raided by the Feds! Is your bass environmentally incorrect?
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Dangers of owning an instrument made with environmentally protected materials...
Be sure to avoid international travel or your might lose your bass! Guitar Frets: Environmental Enforcement Leaves Musicians in Fear | Postmodern Times - WSJ.com
Last edited by Ukiah Bass : 08-26-2011 at 08:43 AM.
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08-26-2011, 08:12 AM
|  | Supporting Member | | Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Upstate, SC | | | Don't know why but reading this reminded of some of the lyrics in 2112.
...
I know it's most unusual
To come before you so
But I've found an ancient miracle
I thought that you should know
Listen to my music
And hear what it can do
There's something here as strong as life
I know that it will reach you
Yes, we know, it's nothing new
It's just a waste of time
We have no need for ancient ways
The world is doing fine
Another toy will help destroy
The elder race of man
Forget about your silly whim
It doesn't fit the plan
... |
08-26-2011, 09:07 AM
| | | | That article is, of course, from a paper with an anti regulatory agenda, and includes no references to anyone not a manufacturer or reseller actually having a problem transporting their instrument for that reason in the real world. The only basis for that fearmongering is a quote from one guy that says he's afraid of the possibility of having a problem with customs.
Headlines are often written by editors rather than writers of the pieces, which is why they tend to include hype far beyond what the story actually says, in order to pull in eyes. This is a good example.
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08-26-2011, 09:07 AM
|  | a/k/a Steve Cooper | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Huntington WV | | Yeah, I saw a link to another news story about the raid on the Gibson factories on Ace of Spades, yesterday.
Grrrrrrrr!  Welcome to the brave new world... |
08-26-2011, 09:09 AM
| | | | Boy, does that stink.
I guess I am fortunate that my Steinberger has no wooden parts at all. |
08-26-2011, 09:11 AM
|  | Horse getter back onner | | Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Fredericton, NB Canada | | | Git alla them majeecians, git'em boys!
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Canadian Club 187 | Rickenbacker 365 | ATK 170 | Telecaster Basses 46 | G&L 007 |
08-26-2011, 09:13 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tulsa, Ok | | | Article relevant to the situation.
<http://www.fretboardjournal.com/features/magazine/guitar-lover%E2%80%99s-guide-cites-conservation-treaty> |
08-26-2011, 09:37 AM
| | a/k/a Steve Cooper | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Huntington WV | | Quote:
Originally Posted by teleharmonium  That article is, of course, from a paper with an anti regulatory agenda, and includes no references to anyone not a manufacturer or reseller actually having a problem transporting their instrument for that reason in the real world. The only basis for that fearmongering is a quote from one guy that says he's afraid of the possibility of having a problem with customs.
Headlines are often written by editors rather than writers of the pieces, which is why they tend to include hype far beyond what the story actually says, in order to pull in eyes. This is a good example. |
Well, that was from the op-ed section of the WSJ--and it's labeled as opinion. No misrepresentation, there, y'know? Op-eds are interpretive, by their nature.
It's up to you whether you find the interpretation reasonable, or not. But it's not hype, when the author of an opinion column offers his/her opinion, or the editor embeds a value judgment in the headline. Those are in the nature of the genre.
The same is true of the columns on the op-ed page of the NYT, LAT, WaPo, or any other paper. |
08-26-2011, 09:45 AM
| | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewo Well, that was from the op-ed section of the WSJ--and it's labeled as opinion. No misrepresentation, there, y'know? Op-eds are interpretive, by their nature.
It's up to you whether you find the interpretation reasonable, or not. But it's not hype, when the author of an opinion column offers his/her opinion, or the editor embeds a value judgment in the headline. Those are in the nature of the genre.
The same is true of the columns on the op-ed page of the NYT, LAT, WaPo, or any other paper. | I understand that, however, most of the article reads like a straight up news story (albeit with occasional hotbutton word choices) until the last section, and it is being posted on this board (where politics are banned) ostensibly as a news/helpful hint item.
Political opinion is often presented, as much as possible, as something other than opinion, in order to be taken more seriously than it would be otherwise.
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Last edited by teleharmonium : 08-26-2011 at 09:47 AM.
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08-26-2011, 09:53 AM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Filthydelphia, USA | | | In an effort to remain apolitical per the rules here, I'm not going to say anything, but most of you will know what I'm thinking and I'm sure a lot of you will agree with me. |
08-26-2011, 09:57 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: St. Louis | | Quote:
Originally Posted by teleharmonium I understand that, however, most of the article reads like a straight up news story (albeit with occasional hotbutton word choices) until the last section, and it is being posted on this board (where politics are banned) ostensibly as a news/helpful hint item.
Political opinion is often presented, as much as possible, as something other than opinion, in order to be taken more seriously than it would be otherwise. | So the raid on Gibson, in any media format is "Political"? Or is it just that the story linked in this particular thread came from WSJ? 
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08-26-2011, 09:57 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: St. Louis | | | All the articles related to this say the same thing. What difference does it make which one is linked?
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08-26-2011, 10:07 AM
| | | | The crapper is that musical instrument manufacturing takes up less than 1% of all the available wood world wide. Even if there were no restrictions of any kind on musical instrument manufacturers of all kinds, not just guitars and basses, as an industry, so little wood is used that from this perspective it is still sustainable, even with the so-called exotic woods. I agree -- government overreaction at its worst. |
08-26-2011, 10:08 AM
| | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd Eye So the raid on Gibson, in any media format is "Political"? Or is it just that the story linked in this particular thread came from WSJ? | Neither. It's that the specific "story" is, as noted above, an editorial which expresses a political point of view.
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08-26-2011, 10:09 AM
| | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd Eye All the articles related to this say the same thing. What difference does it make which one is linked? | Exactly what other story from a non editorial news story reporting on this raid says the equivalent of "(...)artsy do-gooders only too eager to tell others what kind of light bulbs they have to buy won't make sacrifices when it comes to their own passions" ?
If you can't provide an example, then it would appear that you are mistaken.
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08-26-2011, 10:35 AM
| | a/k/a Steve Cooper | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Huntington WV | | | I mean this comment to be helpful, not argumentative:
Op-eds, by their very nature, offer interpretive frames to the reader. Think of them as a combination of facts and interpretations, with a persuasive intent.
A careful reader can simply separate out facts (in this case, the raid on Gibson, the fine imposed on the piano dealer, the pianist who thought he needed to have the ivory on the keys replaced, etc.) and form an opinion different from the news writer's.
You might think the raid on Gibson is appropriate and environmentally necessarily. I might think this is yet another example of regulatory overreach with mind-numbing unintended consequences. But I'm glad the OP and others linked material on this matter; I want to know about the facts, so I can form my own opinion about the matter.
Last edited by Ewo : 08-26-2011 at 10:44 AM.
Reason: fixed error: piano dealer, not piano builder
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08-26-2011, 12:33 PM
|  | Born in the '90s, please ignore | | Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Northfield MN | | More like "Department of INjustice". Am I right? 
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08-26-2011, 12:36 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: St. Louis | | NOT from WSJ.
“The Federal Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. has suggested that the use of wood from India that is not finished by Indian workers is illegal, not because of U.S. law, but because it is the Justice Department’s interpretation of a law in India. (If the same wood from the same tree was finished by Indian workers, the material would be legal.) This action was taken without the support and consent of the government in India.” Gibson.com General Music, Industry and Guitar News
Is this political Tele?
It doesn't matter, these threads all seem to be disappearing for some reason. Almost like someone doesn't want this discussed here.
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08-26-2011, 12:43 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ypsilanti, MI 48197 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Floyd Eye NOT from WSJ.
“The Federal Department of Justice in Washington, D.C. has suggested that the use of wood from India that is not finished by Indian workers is illegal, not because of U.S. law, but because it is the Justice Department’s interpretation of a law in India. |
Nope. IT certainly is illegal under US law. The Lacey Act in particular - which specifies:
§ 3372. Prohibited acts
(a) Offenses other than marking offenses
It is unlawful for any person--
(2) to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase in interstate or foreign commerce--
(B) any plant--
(i) taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law or regulation of any State, or any foreign law
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