Gonna start a fight . . .

I'm probably gonna start a fight here.

I was looking at a picture of Lady Gag-Me in the paper the other day. She was at a Mets game wearing a bra and panties get-up, giving the finger to someone (or the world). And then there's the recent pleather nun's outfit thing. You know, I'm really getting sick of this crap. Is that what it's all about? Does crass and ill-considered REALLY rule the day now? Is that what freedom of expression is all about - the freedom to be a disrpespectful moron? What about our roles and responsibilities in a civil society? Do we all just burp and scratch our groins and get on with it? Will someone - ANYONE - tell stars like Lady Gag-Me that it is indecent to show up to public events 3/4 nude and wave your middle finger around? Just ONE angry parent??!!

I understand that not everyone is a role-model - especially in the music industry. But COME ON!! WHY - when the world is laid at their feet - does someone like Lady Gag-me have to spit on people? I mean, really, now. I'm not Catholic, or even religious, but I take offense at the nun outfit thing. Does EVERYTHING need to be sexualized? Is there nothing outside the boundaries of crass?

This is not a gender thing either. Don't even get me started on male athletes. Knuckle-draggers who blow zillion dollar contracts by getting into bar-brawls. WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY THINKING? Why not get invloved with a literacy center or the local YMCA? Do something for a few kids. SHEESH!!

Funny thing is, I've been an extreme metal fan/player for a long time. And I say - if a guy in a Suffocation shirt says your culture has a problem with rude - you're in real trouble.

A lot of this has to do with the worship of fame and material success, IMO. Don't get me wrong; I'm a capitalist to the bone. But our country was founded on something different; the integrity of the individual, character, freedom of expression in a civil society. People like Lady Gag-Me denigrate everything that they claim to upohold. It makes me sick.

There's my rant.

[tZer]

Originally Posted by jhan

Does crass and ill-considered REALLY rule the day now?

Only if you react to it.

[R. Laevinus]

Originally Posted by tZer

Only if you react to it.

+1

I'm a recovering Goth (although I think I see a relapse on the horizon) and let me tell you, the one thing that really got my goat, back in the day, was the people who ignored the getup and treated me like everybody else.

I've since grown up a little (do not cast up to me the follies of my youth), and I realize now that the morons will always be with us. The best thing to do - and the one thing that has any potential to make them wise up - is to not rise to the bait.

[gttim]

I, for one, have no problem with a woman wearing a bra and panties get-up and giving the finger to someone. I was raised Catholic and have no problem with a sexy nun outfit, maybe with garter belts. In fact, I encourage all the above behavior.

[tZer]

The other thing is the culture of celebrity and fully understanding that part of it is simply provocative and nothing more. If she's able to hit as many radars as she can by whatever means, pedestrian or laudable, she's done what she needs to in order to remain a 'celebrity' - she's hit your radar and you unwittingly (or very cleverly, I am not sure what your REAL relationship to her or intent behind starting this 'keep her in the spotlight' thread is...) helped her.

[john turner]

wow, bub. madonna and 1985 called and want their complaints back.

I disagree with choosing not to react. Reacting to another's representation of values is what makes us a democracy. It's HOW one reacts that matters.

I don't buy the whole zen thing of just 'letting it go,' and I don't think most of the people who proppose such an outlook buy it that much either. I've heard people espouse the 'Wear life like a loose garment' thing then get enraged when someone curses within a fifty foot radius of their kids.

[KeithBMI]

Originally Posted by gttim

I, for one, have no problem with a woman wearing a bra and panties get-up and giving the finger to someone. I was raised Catholic and have no problem with a sexy nun outfit, maybe with garter belts. In fact, I encourage all the above behavior.

I agree with this guy. I have no problems with Lady Gaga. She makes catchy music that girls want to hear and I make money.

[BigOldHarry]

Originally Posted by tZer

Only if you react to it.

Yup. So long as folks look at her, she exists. If everyone turned away...

I actually kinda like her. At least she's trying to be different and not like Britney or the other gaggle of girls posing at teen-sluts...

And the music I've heard isn't half bad... Ke$sha, on the other hand, is awful. Simply awful.

This is wrong and un-thinking. Noticing something and offering a critique doesn't mean supporting it. You're coming from the 'No publicity is bad publicity' viewpoint, and that's an extremely short-sided view, IMO.

Originally Posted by tZer

The other thing is the culture of celebrity and fully understanding that part of it is simply provocative and nothing more. If she's able to hit as many radars as she can by whatever means, pedestrian or laudable, she's done what she needs to in order to remain a 'celebrity' - she's hit your radar and you unwittingly (or very cleverly, I am not sure what your REAL relationship to her or intent behind starting this 'keep her in the spotlight' thread is...) helped her.

[tZer]

Originally Posted by jhan

I disagree with choosing not to react.

Disagree all you want - but any publicity is good publicity and if you really don't want to support her choice of self-promotion, the only way to prove it is to ignore her. If you think you rant will somehow influence someone to opt out of acting outrageously in order to get attention, you sadly mistaken - and actually probably fueling someone's idea right now about yet another annoying ploy that will get you to rant even louder.

Originally Posted by jhan

Reacting to another's representation of values is what makes us a democracy.

Nope - that's what freedom of speech is all about. Our democracy is founded on a government for the people by the people and our ability to vote for our elected officials.

Anything to offer besides snarkiness? No? Didn't think so.

Having some sort of value-stance is unhip, I guess.

Originally Posted by john turner

wow, bub. madonna and 1985 called and want their complaints back.

[macaroni tony]

Originally Posted by john turner

wow, bub. madonna and 1985 called and want their complaints back.

While the complaints are as old as time, I do share in the sentiment. It doesn't do a whole lotta good to stand in the middle of the room and scream until you're blue in the face, b.c. the masses are followers and idol worshipers. It sure feels good to get it out, sometimes, though.

[Burlington]

Originally Posted by gttim

I, for one, have no problem with a woman wearing a bra and panties get-up and giving the finger to someone. I was raised Catholic and have no problem with a sexy nun outfit, maybe with garter belts. In fact, I encourage all the above behavior.

+1

[Roadstar]

There is an old saying and Gene Simmons likely takes responsibility for it that goes something like "any press is good press". It is meant to shock and annoy. It can make you a lot of money. I also dont agree with "everything handed to them". 90 percent of this crap is about being able to sleep on a bus, drink yourself to oblivion, answer the same questions over and over and over, and get up and play your ass off night after night.
Folk cried the same stuff about Alice Cooper, WASP, Motley Crue, Ozzy, King Diamond, the Sex Pistols. Tastelessness rules!

[Jazz Ad]

So far each and every one of Lady Gaga's acts was a re-hash of another star's shock tricks, most of them over 20 year old.
Which isn't really surprising since people get more and more uptight as time goes by.
Angry parents should adress the issue to their kids and explain it to them, instead of blaming somebody else for the narrow vision of the World they gave to their children.

The notion of freedom of speech is contained within my statement. But freedom of speech is contingent upon the responsibility to use it wisely.

Our democracy was founded largely upon the idea of Natural Law as proposed by Edmund Burke, a thinker which many of the founding fathers admired. It was not simply founded upon voting procedures. The idea of 'government for the people by the people and our ability to vote for our elected officials' is an extension of this Natural Law.

Originally Posted by tZer

Nope - that's what freedom of speech is all about. Our democracy is founded on a government for the people by the people and our ability to vote for our elected officials.

[cnltb]

Originally Posted by tZer

Only if you react to it.

Yup...
+1

Disagree. People are getting more and more permissive. We do not live with the spector of Victorianism over our heads, as many suggest.

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

So far each and every one of Lady Gaga's acts was a re-hash of another star's shock tricks, most of them over 20 year old.
Which isn't really surprising since people get more and more uptight as time goes by.
Angry parents should adress the issue to their kids and explain it to them, instead of blaming somebody else for the narrow vision of the World they gave to their children.

[txbasschik]

Know what I tell my 11 y.o. daughter about Lady Gag-Me and others of her ilk?

"Wow. She sure does look like an idiot, huh? Intelligent women can find better ways to express themselves than that. And good musicians don't have to rely on shock value. They can rely on their music. She just comes off like a minor Batman villian."

I use these people as object lessons...How Not To Behave.

I'm proud to say that my girl has no interest in these fakers whatsoever, at least since she grew out of Hannah Montana. She likes Japanese punk (big anime fan) and Evanescence. Not my cuppa tea, but its still better than Gag-Ga and Brit-knee. She's recently become a fan of One-Eyed Doll, which pleases me to no end. There's a gal who uses costumes to excellent effect, is just about as nice as can be, and who writes great songs, plays excellent guitar, and has a voice to put all of those pop queens to utter shame!

Cherie