Guitar players as bass players......

[Bassman316]

This is interesting. I've been playing with my guitar-playing buddy now for about seven years. He's a great guitar player in my opinion, and sometimes in between jams he'll pick up one of my basses and fiddle around with it. I can always tell, right away, a stark difference between his technique and mine- his seems to serve more of a chordal, solo, dare I say melodic purpose than a rythmic purpose.

[coreyfyfe]

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

The guitar is a melody instrument; the bass is a rhythm one.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts. There are different approaches to both instruments, and while most people who play one can play the other with some effort, you can't play one thinking it's the other.

[4stringmangler]

i'm guilty as charged, i gave up guitar so i can focus on bass playing and i tend to think like a guitarist, but there were a lot of good points brought up in this thread. i'm looking to improve on my playing and listening. it helps when you have people to jam with, but at the moment i'm only jamming by myself. i plan on imporving and learning how to lock into a groove.

[Revvv]

When I see threads like this, I sometimes wonder if we bass players do not have a bit of a jealous streak when it comes to playing guitar. I understand that the starter of this topic is both a guitarist and a bassist, but in general there is a lot of whining going on when a guitarist picks up a bass.

I play both guitar and bass. I play lead, rhythm, and bass. All three are approached differently.

I can easily find myself running a lead riff on the bass if I'm not careful, but if you keep a solid groove you can make it work. You also have to play with a group of guys you are able to read and share with. If they can't back off, you can't run on the bass. You have to stay simple.

[guitfiddle0409]

Originally Posted by spade2you

Yup, pretty much sums it up. Play root 8ths (not even with solid rhythm) or follow the guitar riff.

Hey c'mon...you're giving away all my secrets.

[Revvv]

Originally Posted by Bassman316

This is interesting. I've been playing with my guitar-playing buddy now for about seven years. He's a great guitar player in my opinion, and sometimes in between jams he'll pick up one of my basses and fiddle around with it. I can always tell, right away, a stark difference between his technique and mine- his seems to serve more of a chordal, solo, dare I say melodic purpose than a rythmic purpose.

I'll bet it sounds good though.

[lamarjones]

Guitar doesn't have to be a melody instrument, how many singer songwirter types re using it for rhythm? Also in bluegrass, its rhythm. Well actually more to the point, it could be either.

People aren't crappy rhythm players because they can't play rhtyhm for the most part. They don't WANT to play rhythm for the most part. I will pump out the SAME RHYTHM for 5 minutes straight if I have to, with the occassional fill or what not, and most people can't bring themselves to be that robotic if you want to call it that.

Me, I call it maturity.

Interesting note.
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/sho...70#post3889870

[LAPetrarca]

Originally Posted by Revvv

When I see threads like this, I sometimes wonder if we bass players do not have a bit of a jealous streak when it comes to playing guitar. I understand that the starter of this topic is both a guitarist and a bassist, but in general there is a lot of whining going on when a guitarist picks up a bass.

I do play both but, my primary instrument for over 40 years has been the bass. I decided to learn guitar about 7 or 8 years ago while between bands. It was something I always wanted to do but just never had time.

I harbor no ill will or jealousy towards guitar players. In fact, I can't even put myself in the same class as most of them. I'm thrilled when I strum a couple of chords and someone says "Isn't that [insert name of song]? It just seems like a guitar players attitude is "I'm a guitar player! Of course I can play bass!

MOST lead guitar players I've known have very big egos and just seem to think that because they're smoking guitar players, that translates to their being able to play bass as well.

As someone stated earlier, VERY different instruments!

[AndyLES]

Interesting thread. I also play guitar - in fact, for the past 12 years - and I have only recently taken up bass.

I find that my guitar technique actually HELPED more than hindered, in that I already had a solid grounding in scales, chords, basic theory, pick playing, etc.

But what has also helped was the advice a friend of mine (bass player for nearly 30 years) gave me when I started on bass: You have to adopt a different mindset.

In his opinion, there's nothign wrong with guitarists playing bass, but the problem is that they/we pick up certain habits that, while not necessarily "bad" for guitar, simply don't work too well on bass. This habits include overplaying or "rushing" the beat.

What has helped me in both regards in putting down the pick and taking up fingerstyle. It's forced me to become conscious of my feel and my time. I also play LESS, which for many styles is actually helpful.

Just my 2 cents...

[etoncrow]

There was an exception to my aforementioned experience. I was drumming in a band from 1975 to 1979 where everyone in the band, a four piece, sang lead and played muliple instruments. The lead guitarist had played bass in a motown cover band in the sixties and was exceptionally good at laying a groove. But he was also the best lead player and with the exception of recording (where he played bass on everything) he only played bass on maybe three songs live. He is now the bass player in the NPR "Mountain Stage" stage band....also composed of the second lead player and the drummer who replaced me in that 70's band.

[Fretless1!]

Originally Posted by LAPetrarca

.......

Seems like no matter which guitar player picks up the bass, they always seem to approach bass playing with the same approach as playing guitar.....no "rhythm" so to speak and it's difficult to dial in a groove with the drummer so, except for the drums, there's not really a steady, driving bottom to keep things moving along.........is this normal for guitar players? Anybody else experienced this?

I have noticed this as well. They're not "bad". They're hitting the right notes but the feel is off. I don't mean that as a blanket statement. Some guitarists function quite well as bassists but I find them to be the exception.

Originally Posted by Dave Muscato

The guitar is a melody instrument; the bass is a rhythm one. It's actually closer to playing drums than guitar, IMO/IME.

That tends to be my mindset, too.

Originally Posted by Skarekrough

...bass requires a certain mindset as well as physical demands

One of the guitarists in my band is an excellent, excellent guitarist. But he simply can not wrap his mind around the bass. The good thing is that he knows it. It's just not his thing.

Originally Posted by Kemet09

Hey, vibing off what Dave M said, & coming dangerously close to highjacking this thread, what do y'all think of what Anthony Jackson says about BG... That it is more akin to Classical guitar than it is to Upright Bass?

Whilst I luvs AJ to death.... I cannot for the life of me wrap my mind around this concept.....

I can understand that. Think about the lines played on electric contrasted with the lines played on the upright. Jamerson would be a good example since he played both. "I Was Made to Love Her" compared to "Dancing in the Streets".

Originally Posted by AndyLES

In his opinion, there's nothign wrong with guitarists playing bass, but the problem is that they/we pick up certain habits that, while not necessarily "bad" for guitar, simply don't work too well on bass. This habits include overplaying or "rushing" the beat.

This is what I hear when my, and many other, guitarists play bass.

[ihateusernames]

wow - some really ignorant posts here. not all guitar players are idiots guys.

personally i played trumpet, piano, tuba, baritone, and guitar as a youngster. played rhythm guitar in a band for almost 20 years and started learning how to handle a bass about 5 years ago. i switched to bass full time at that point and continue to improve because i like the challenge of a new instrument but i've not become less of a guitar player in doing so. once i'm satisfied with my abilities on bass guitar, including fretless, i'll buy a cello since i've always wanted to learn how to play it. what's wrong with knowing how to play multiple instruments?

one of my primary bass influences started his musical career as a rhythm guitar player (rob deleo) guess he's an idiot too according to some posts in this thread?

[bigcardinal]

Interesting observations. As a long time guitar player who switched to bass for "practical" reasons (read: no bass player to be found, anywhere!), I went through a similar experience to what you have mentioned. At least I was a rhythm guitar player, and a drummer before that, so the transition was a bit easier than for a diehard lead player (different mindset, I'm sure most of us can agree). Still, it took me awhile to find my place in the band. It helped to think of the bass as the drum's siamese twin. In the early days, one drummer told me repeatedly "listen to the bass drum, follow it's lead". This was a good starting point. Since then, it has been an education in keeping the groove going without over or under-stepping the boundaries.

[BTBplayer]

Put me on the list too , Guitar my 1st instrument , played in many bands , Band couldn't find bassist * Boom * I'm a bassist . Since then I got bitten by the bass bug , developed my Rythum and lockin in with the kick etc , still getting there, but so much farther along then I was ...

I think it's easier to go from guitar to bass instead of the other way ,that I and alot of you guys did . My guitars are sitting in the closet alot now.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by Kemet09

Hey, vibing off what Dave M said, & coming dangerously close to highjacking this thread, what do y'all think of what Anthony Jackson says about BG... That it is more akin to Classical guitar than it is to Upright Bass?

Whilst I luvs AJ to death.... I cannot for the life of me wrap my mind around this concept.....

Well AJ was actually a guitarist for a long time. He did decide that his guitar playing needed to be euthanized and the bass was his instrument, but that did influence what he thought the role of the bass is.

He calls it the bass _guitar_ (the contrabass actually) rather than just the bass and believes that it should have 6 strings. Sure enough he was among the first to start playing a 6 string and really popularize it.

But of course his style really illustrates how he thinks about it. It's much more involved in the melody of the stuff he plays sort of going back and forth between being melodic and more of a backup role.
A lot like the guitar really, when you think about it.

If I were able to play like AJ I'd think of it that way too, probably

LS

[BillMason]

Originally Posted by lamarjones

I will pump out the SAME RHYTHM for 5 minutes straight if I have to, with the occassional fill or what not...

Hell, sometimes that's even FUN! And I completely agree with Herbie Hancock (can anyone disagree with him?).

Some of my favorite bass lines have been played by guitar players, and some of my favorites bass players have been guitar players: Geezer Butler and Paul McCartney spring immediately to mind. Many, many classic rock bass players just stuck to the roots or the root and fifth, and often it was the guitar player turned bass player who stood out by playing something different from that, something more interesting, without sacrificing the groove. Having said that, there is something hypnotic that is brought to many songs by a simple, repetitive bass line that just holds the centre and provides that foundational element while the other instruments, including drums, circle around that groove. "My City Was Gone" springs to mind.

[js1]

I've played guitar and bass for way too long. Competent on both, better bass player than guitar in a band situation.

Had a long layoff from playing live (raised my kids), and got back to playing live a few years ago. With a much improved ear and ego in check, I realized that I wasn't as good as a bassist as I thought. Nor as good as a guitarist. Made me dwell on the differences. This is what I came up with:

Real bassists WANT to play bass.
Real bassists are mentally Siamese Twinned with the drummer.
Real bassists honor the kick.
Real bassists listen to the rest of the drums and weave the part around them.
Real bassists listen to the vocal line, and don't stomp on it.
Real bassists know the power of space.
Real bassists know that note length is not fixed.
Real bassists know that their note will usually be perceived as the root, and the harmonic power that has.

Don't know if I'm a real bassist yet, but I'm well on my way. And I realized that I much prefer playing bass to guitar. My guitarist gets the guys playing air guitar. I get the girls dancing. No contest.

Realizing this made me a better guitarist, as well, oddly enough. I've got a similar "real guitarists" list, but this is a bass board.

js

[basscase]

I usually don't talk much here on TB ... but this thread caught my eye for some reason. I kinda would like to put in my 2 cents if you'all care to listen. Their are some guitarist that can do anything. Look at Ed King with Lynard Skynard on Gimme Three Steps. A true guitarist playing bass. but these types don't come down the pike very often. I don't have anything against guitar players except when they play bass runs when I'm playing the same run, but I just blow it off because I'm usually louder than them anyway. But in reality all real bass players are different breed of people. they live ,eat, sleep bass guitar. When a real bass player hears a song he listens to whats going on with the low end of this arrangment because thats where his head is, and even though he knows the chord arrangment, timing, feel, being country, rock, etc.,He or she are going to add flavor of the bass to the song with simplicity and skill that only a true bass player can execute because they know their instument and thats what they live for. Sincerely, Basscase

[wazzel]

IMO it is not that the guitars can not play bass, but that they do not generally have the right mind set to get everything they can out of the instrumet in a band setting. They generally have the technical skills, but not the presence to fit properly when playing the bass. My formal music training is on the saxaphone, tuba and french horn which are generally support instruments so my bass playing draws alot from that especally the sax and french horn since that is what I played the most.

I know lots of guitarist that can shred the hell out of my bass, but none can hold the groove and make it sound good like I can.

[superfunk47]

Originally Posted by unclejane

Well AJ was actually a guitarist for a long time. He did decide that his guitar playing needed to be euthanized and the bass was his instrument, but that did influence what he thought the role of the bass is.

He calls it the bass _guitar_ (the contrabass actually) rather than just the bass and believes that it should have 6 strings. Sure enough he was among the first to start playing a 6 string and really popularize it.

But of course his style really illustrates how he thinks about it. It's much more involved in the melody of the stuff he plays sort of going back and forth between being melodic and more of a backup role.
A lot like the guitar really, when you think about it.

If I were able to play like AJ I'd think of it that way too, probably

LS

As much experience as AJ has, I have to completely disagree with his views of the instrument. Personally, I see the electric as a direct descendant of the bass viol/violin. Just because it incorporated some of the design concepts of the electric guitar doesn't make it one.

There were bass instruments in the guitar family, but they never really caught on and weren't ever really practical. But trying to link those designs (which haven't really been updated in a couple hundred years) to the first electric basses of the 50's seems a pretty faulty link IMO.

EDIT: In AJ's case, however, I don't think it's that far-fetched to describe what he's doing as bass guitar work. But that's because he's approaching it as a guitar which happens to be tuned lower rather than a bass. It's a fine line to be sure, but there's several hundred years of fine instrument making to back it up