Guitarists - help out my clueless guitar player

[Alex]

OK so my guitar player is looking for his first big tube stack, and he's only looking at stuff from big companies like Fender and Marshall. Not that I know anything about guitar amps, but my past experiences with popular gear companies make me skeptical about this choice;

One year for Xmas, I was ready to get my first half stack. I went to GC, plugged into an Ampeg B2R and 410HLF. It sounded better than anything else in the store and, not knowing any better, I bought it. $1300. Fast forward 2 years and I am pretty unhappy with the tone and volume that I am getting out of the Ampeg rig. After joining TB and becoming enlightened about all the amp choices out there, I sold my Ampeg rig and bought a Trace Elliot 1153 and a Genz Benz GBE400. Total cost: $550, and it sounded a million times better than the Ampeg rig, with much more volume.

Why is that important? I don't want my guitarist to make the same mistake I did and buy some super expensive Marshall stack and realize a year later that there was much better gear out there for much less money.

So, guitarists - What are the Genz Benzes and Bergantinos and Epifanis of the guitar world?

Thanks in advance

~Alex

[EunosFD]

First and foremost he won't need a huge half stack. Sure, it may look cool and whatnot, but in most cases it will be complete overkill. Now a nice reasonably powerful (max 50 watts) and a small cab should be plenty (2x12), but even that can be too much for many venues. Tube amps and especially guitar amps are much louder for their wattage than most anticipate and louder than an equivalently rated solid state amp. A 100w half stack is going to be ear bleedingly loud and he won't get everything out of it that it's capable of. A tube amp will sound best when the tubes get cranked up and cookin' so with a big watt amp it's gonna be super loud. And if you guys play with a PA then you'd probably want to mic his amp anyway and the amps size doesn't really mean so much then. Heck, I saw a band recently who had a fantastic mix and the guitar player was using a Fender Blues Jr. (single 1x10" speaker, 15w) and it sounded huge through their PA. Anything bigger than a 2-12" combo will likely be overkill. I have a Fender Bassman RI (4x10) retubed with 6V6 tubes which makes it around 20w and it is still incredibly loud & has no problem keeping up.

What kind of music do you guys play & who are his favorite guitarists? That plays a lot into the type of amp as well. Fender-based amps sound different from Marshall or Vox based amps. And even within those companies different amps sound different (Fender tweed, blackface, silverface, et cetera).

The big names like Fender and Marshall aren't bad at all so don't count them out. Heck, the Fender Reissue series are great amps and the Marshall 18w reissue is killer, but he should really do some research before plunking down a bunch of dough on any amp. What kind of price range is he looking at? There are TONS of boutique makers out there, but some of the bigger names who are widely available & he may be able to try out locally: Bad Cat, Dr Z, Soldano, THD, Matchless, Budda, Bogner, Carr, Top Hat, Orange, HiWatt.... Lots of good choices out there and they all offer a wide range of possibilities from sparkling cleans to high gain power. Keep in mind some of them can get downright expensive though so he needs to know what he's looking to get out of it before shelling out the money.

I'd highly recommend that he check out The Gear Page forum for some great insight into amps (it's like the guitar equivalent to TalkBass ). There are a lot of gear heads over there with tons of experience with these amps who would be glad to help him decide.

www.thegearpage.net/board

Hope this helped some without being too confusing and long winded...

[rhythm]

Get him to try Hughes and Kettner.

[lbpark]

Originally Posted by EunosFD

The big names like Fender and Marshall aren't bad at all so don't count them out. Heck, the Fender Reissue series are great amps and the Marshall 18w reissue is killer, but he should really do some research before plunking down a bunch of dough on any amp. What kind of price range is he looking at? There are TONS of boutique makers out there, but some of the bigger names who are widely available & he may be able to try out locally: Bad Cat, Dr Z, Soldano, THD, Matchless, Budda, Bogner, Carr, Top Hat, Orange, HiWatt.... Lots of good choices out there and they all offer a wide range of possibilities from sparkling cleans to high gain power. Keep in mind some of them can get downright expensive though so he needs to know what he's looking to get out of it before shelling out the money.
...

I've tried all those brands at one point or another (minus Carr) and they're all amazing amps. My personal preference was for the Dr.Z. I also think the Bassman Reissue (410) is a really nice amp. Encourage him to research them all and hopefully try them all.

[studentaccount1]

What kind of music is he going to be playing?

[i_got_a_mohawk]

There are a huge number of nice amps out there, hell i wouldnt ever say a Mesa or the right marshall didnt sound right.

Also things like the Peavey 5150/6505 series are amazing! IMHO

Those other amp companies listed also produce alot of very nice amplifiers! also look at Cornford, but i dont know if you could get them in the US, they are nice tho!

If he is set on getting a Marshall, id recommend an 80s JCM-800! My favourite marshall amp by far!

Currently im using a bit of a different setup, im using a Trace Elliot SpeedTwin guitar amp, its really nice, i kinda wish it was the newer of the two versions that were released (my version has a pentode (100watt) / Triode (50watt) switch, but the newer one had a switch the cut out half of the tubes, so you could use the two switches and basically get either 100, 50 or 25 watts power output

I also use a peavey classic 30, and for a 30 watt 1x12 its a loud and damned nice sounding!

[Alex]

Originally Posted by studentaccount1

What kind of music is he going to be playing?

We are an instrumental band that plays aggressive funk and jazz originals. Think Primus and Soulive. I don't know much about guitar tone, but I think he wants a warm and punchy sound.

He really likes John Scofield.

EunosFD - The largest venues we play (right now) are ~1800 people (indoor auditorium), but most of our shows are more like 100-ish crowds (indoors and out), so what wattage would you recommend for him?

His budget is something like $1200 for the whole rig, and I think he wants a cab about the size of a 212.

So what would you recommend now that would meet this description?

Thanks guys!

~Alex

[lbpark]

Can't say how much is too little, but I can say that he'll never need more than 50, and will probably never need more than 30. And yeah, the Peavey 5150 is also a great amp.

[canopener]

Do you really think he's going to listen to his bass player?

[vindy500]

my guitarist plays a 5150, nice amp

[Johnny Crab]

You might check into this one or one slightly less. A LOT of "valve" guys are dumping their stuff after fooling with one of these. Some are BIG name players. Some are just local players. Guitar player I'm with has one. AMAZING.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...Amp?sku=482238

My son's got the budget-minded Spider 2x12. Any guitar plugged into that stripped-down version sounds great.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by Johnny Crab

You might check into this one or one slightly less. A LOT of "valve" guys are dumping their stuff after fooling with one of these. Some are BIG name players. Some are just local players. Guitar player I'm with has one. AMAZING.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...Amp?sku=482238

My son's got the budget-minded Spider 2x12. Any guitar plugged into that stripped-down version sounds great.

Im sorry, but i think they are horrible, the spider is even worse, the flexi tone can get some useable tones, but they arent that good. Our guitarist has used one alot at our practice rooms, and at our last gig it was a spider 2 head, and, it just sounded dire in comparison to his JCM900.

I really cant stand those things, they make all guitars sound very similar and, well, dont sound good at all. They also seem to cut out a number of dynamics.


And dude, for $1200 you could get a pretty damned sweet setup! Just like when buying bass stuff, i say go second hand, he could get a really nice amp and cab setup for that much cash. my current setup is really nice, IMO and the head was only 280, the cab was 150

I know its not much help but you really have a huge huge range of choices!

[j-bass-kreep]

Peavey stuff is great , my brother has a XXl head , its incredably powerful and flexible , you can set it to 25,50 or 100 watts and with different impedance loads . Also it sounds great and its pretty inexpensive .

http://peavey.com/products/browse.cf...XL%3F+Head.cfm

[i_got_a_mohawk]

The Windsor amp looks pretty sweet.

I really want to try the valve king, it has a control which is sorta like a class A and class A/B blend, which is pretty nice!

Penta series really has my attention tho!

5150 Mk2 with a modded ch1 so its the same as the lead on the original is what i want tho , or a JCM 800 of course!

[mkrtu9]

I use a marshall Jcm2000TSL 602 which is a 60 watt 2x12 combo and I still think it is too much. Stacks are over rated. I like Marshall but I've always wanted an Orange amp. They are very nice but pricey.

[Kelly Lee]

Originally Posted by rhythm

Get him to try Hughes and Kettner.

+1

H&K are great for any genre of music and are some of the sweetest amps I have ever heard.

[ihateusernames]

for that style of music i'd suggest a nice little 1x12 combo, seriously. maybe a budda, mesa.

of course, i'm an old fender guy at heart so fender's vibrolux or deluxe reverb are great....GREAT little amps. haven't played the new supersonic yet and have no reason to doubt it's abilities. the nice thing with fender is they interact well with pedals and they sound good at low volumes. volume being cranked isn't required.

a bad cat, thd, or rivera might be a nice choice too. one of our guys just got a winfield thomas head. it's handmade, 30/18 watts....it rips through a 4x12 but the controls take some getting used to. and it can be way, way too loud at times.

here's a good resource - http://reviews.harmony-central.com/r...p#manufacturer

[EunosFD]

Does he want to buy brand new or would he consider used too? There are a number of nice new amps in his price range which would likely fit his needs just fine and be great amps to boot. In the used market there will probably be quite a few more choices out there in that price range.

New I'd suggest:

-Fender SuperSonic
-Laney DC30
-Fender Bassman LTD
-Hughes & Kettner Switchblade (if he needs a lot of features, flexibility, and variety)
-Vox AC30CC2
-Fender DRRI (Deluxe Reverb Reissue)
-Fender Vibrolux RI
-Randall RM-series (they have interchangable preamp modules which are very cool; designed by amp wizard Bruce Egnater)
-Valvetronic Hayseed 30 (may be tougher to find)

That's just a short list of amps which I think would be relatively easy to find at most bigger music stores & chains like Guitar Center or Sam Ash. It would likely be easier to find stores like that with a good variety so he could try them out and see if they work for him.

Used amp wise I'd probably check into:

-Fender Prosonic (predecessor to the SuperSonic & supposedly even better sounding)
-Mesa F30/F50
-Peavey Classic series (they can be had cheap used; with tube & speaker upgrades they can be incredible amps which will hang with pretty much anything out there)
-Peavey 5150 combo (they came in 2x12 & do a good Marshally thing; has channel switching)
-or of course any used version of the first list

If you have a shop nearby which has a nice selection of unique or botique amps that might be a good place to start as the shop owners and employees should likely have much better knowledge of the amps than your average GC salesperson. There are an unbelievable number of amp choices out there and it can get mind boggling so having an informed salesperson will really help. HTH...

Oh, just remembered that since you're near Chicago you might want to have him check out Make'n Music if he hasn't already. I've heard good things about them and they seem to have a good selection of quality brands.

[jwl]

i use a fender hot rod deville 212 that is 60 watts. it is really really loud. as loud as you will need. i put an ibanez digital delay in front and use the supplied 3 channel foot switch to go from clean to dirty to really distorted. i may put some kind of line six modeler in front in the future. jeff

[superbassman2000]

tell your guitar player that he will always be considered nothing by everyone else unless he's got a dumble amp