High-end audio is a crock

[Frettage]

More proof that high-end audio/video is just smoke and mirrors: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/t...icon-outside-1

The short version is that a $3,500 Lexicon DVD player is literally a $500 player in a new chassis. This was discovered by Audioholics, the same people who showed that in a blind test, people couldn't distinguish between expensive Monster Cable and coat hangers for speaker wires.

[Bass_Thumper]

I'm not surprised. There's only so much technology that they can put in there. I guess some folks just feel better paying more.

[PBass101]

Hi-fi audio may be a sham, but you gotta hand it to hi-end audio equipment companies - they've made a killing selling the stuff.

[Frettage]

There's an unfortunate part of the human psyche that allows your perceptions to be affected by perceived value. If you pay more for something, you will truly perceive it to be better. It's like a placebo effect for quality. But there's a reason why we don't allow pharmaceutical companies to sell placebos.

I was just wondering last night if people could tell the difference between some Behringer knock-off pedals and their original counterparts in a blind test. Someone here on TB should try and coordinate this. Behringer has a bad reputation, but how much of it is deserved in terms of audio quality (as opposed to build quality, which isn't as subjective)?

[bongomania]

Yeah, we get into battles over this subject all the time, especially in the Amps forum. It always boils down to scientific types saying "we can prove that XYZ Product is hokum and snake oil, first by logic; second by the application of known laws of physics and engineering; and third by a blind ABX test"... while true believers shout "I heard what I heard, and that is all that matters!" The true believers will usually try to say that blind tests themselves are worthless hokum and that believing a blind ABX test is like some ridiculous act of faith, while their own personal hearing is the ultimate proof of what is true.

Most such threads get locked down after about six pages of fighting.

[bassteban]

IIRC Behringer's bad rep originally stemmed from their apparent lack of ethics(blatantly copying existing designs & high-priced-lawyering their way out of any responsibility). No comment on the right/wrong aspect or possible truth to this rumor, just saying that's what I vaguely recall.

Beyond that, high-end audio is lost on me as I don't hear so well.
Savin' fat money, yo

[MooseLumps]

A-B tests tell us nothing... Without A-B tests we can not know anything.

Zen enough for ya?

[LaklandBass]

yea, ive worked in the audio industry for years. Its not that its all a sham but there is definitely a point of no return. and by that i mean that is a point where you get zero in return for any extra money spent.

I have about $5,000 invested in a two channel system with a cd source, turntable, tower speakers, and seperate pre/power amp. To me this is about as good as it can get aside from maybe a new pair of speakers down the road.

[duff beer]

Originally Posted by PBass101

Hi-fi audio may be a sham, but you gotta hand it to hi-end audio equipment companies - they've made a killing selling the stuff.

You can hand it to them, but I won't...ripping people off does not impress me.

[WarriorJoe7]

Did you see the Linn Audio (New Hampshire) page. They didn't even repackage it (probably just went over the logo) but they took a $199 Behringer amp and made it into the $3500 Linn LANH http://123triadpro.com/triad09/linn_...mplifiers.html ... they even look exactly the same. Go look for the "only $2000 to make your amp sound better" thread and there are links to the the behringer. they have another $139 amp for $1950 right below it (different maker.) I wonder who makes there speakers.

[iamlowsound]

That is exactly why you stick research the crap out of high end audio stuff. My amp and cd player are both Arcam, hand made in England and very good. Also cheap, when you buy them used.

lowsound

[LaklandBass]

Originally Posted by iamlowsound

That is exactly why you stick research the crap out of high end audio stuff. My amp and cd player are both Arcam, hand made in England and very good. Also cheap, when you buy them used.

lowsound

exactly my thoughts. Arcam makes great stuff and is worth the cash. I use mainly NAD and KEF in my system. When you get down to it "mid-fi" really is the high end of audio.

[Gerhn Blanston]

I fell prey to the Monster Bass Cable hype. Works great; but $50?

[superiorpine]

As Bongomania stated, these threads can quickly descend into a pissing contest and get shut down. LaklandBass sheds the critical light here, the ongoing dispute between the objectivists and subjectivists. At issue is whether or not human perception can really be replicated by scientific measures. After that, people will pay for whatever they perceive as an incremental improvement in value, whether it can be scientifically proven or not. ABX tests are indeed useful, but cannot replicate a persons home environment. In a recent Audiophile Voice article several high end amps were AB'd with an el cheapo Beringer. The reviewers all went out and bought the Beringer. However, it did not have the power or bells and whistles that some people think their home environment demands. And so it goes with almost any durable good....scientifically measurable quality vs. the human perception of value. Everyone has their own point of diminishing return. As a recovering audiophile I hit mine, then got into more and more expensive basses. So thats why I love TB--no end of interpretation!

[seamonkey]

Don't think this isn't all High End Audio
It's prevalent in all industries. Including bass gear.
The same eminence speaker is used in low priced cabinet versus a high priced one. The same power amp module used by different amp manufacturers. on and on. They just sell a sticker with their name on it.

Even, Ampeg copies it's own designs and then calls them "Heritage" and charge a fortune.
They'll claim, as does Lexicon in the above article, that they're using premium components - BS - it's the same quality of component you can buy anywhere. It's just another way to squeeze all they can out of the "Label"

The B* discussion about copying gear and selling it cheaper - truth is there is no sacred intellectual property in what get's copied. B* only made a mistake once 20+ years ago and we'll never hear the end of it. They lost 1 lawsuit 20+ years ago - can we get over it?

[Frettage]

My father was a bigwig in the high-end audio industry, and he cared how things sounded, not what they cost. For many years he used zipcord for his speaker cable. He wasn't averse to spending extra money for something when it mattered. He used a Sota turntable with a Well Tempered Arm, which was certainly more expensive than other items, but he thought it was a much better turntable (and was in a position to be able to afford it, which is always a factor).

Ultimately, he quit audio when it no longer had to do with accurate reproduction of sound and turned into "whatever sounds good." That's not necessarily an invalid viewpoint, it just wasn't what he wanted audio to be about.

[rditmars]

Audioholics? How much add revenue do they take in from the "mid-fi" manufacturers they promote? Sure, every audio mag sells adds, but Audioholics has gone way overboard with their "us vs them" BS concerning the so-called high end. No one panders to a market better then Audioholics.

And Lakelandbass, the point of diminishing returns (as individual as that is) is not a point of no return.

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by duff beer

You can hand it to them, but I won't...ripping people off does not impress me.

Pet rock, anyone?

[DrewinHouston]

Philip K. Dick's statement "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away" may apply.

[WalterBush]

With any company using overseas manufacturing, I can guarantee that somewhere, the same product is rebranded elsewhere at a different price. Sometimes by separate arms of the same company to cover more than one market.

The trick is to find the deal when you can. Instead of getting bent, buy the $3500 DVD player at $500, and spend the other $3000 on bass gear