How conservative are musicians?

[Jeff2287]

The ethnomusicologist Mantle Hood once said (and I paraphrase) that musicians are some of the most conservative people. This statement need not be politically oriented. For anyone to play music deliberately within a specific style they must uphold certain traditions and expectations dictated by that style. Strong 4/4 drum beats and distorted guitar in rock music is one such example.

How musically conservative are musicians? How conservative do you think you are about music?

[Elrend]

When it comes to music I enjoy practically everything!

I have a playlist which consists of free jazz, disco, IDM, funk, post-bop, hip hop, gangstah rap, instrumental hip hop, experimental minimalism, bulgarian ethnical music, swedish RIO music, bluegrass and japanese noise punk. So I'm very little conservative in music.

[Godbody]

Within the realm of this particular instrument, there's a broad scope of attiudes, ranging from the guys who only play a pre-CBS Fender P using two fingers at most, plugged directly into the amp, all the way to dudes with 7 string basses played with mind-numbing technique, routed through a series of processing equipment more expensive than the boutique bass itself, and jack in to the most technologically advanced amps ever produced by mankind.

I say it takes all types, just like any other facet of life the old guard and the vanguard both have their place, and maintain a sort of equilibrium.

I'd like to think I'm on the more avant-garde end of the spectrum, but in reality I'm probably dead center; I regularly use an effects board that's worth more than my best bass, and I often play more than the root notes or just hold down the groove. Yet I have a strong predilection for Jazz-style basses, and I like the lo-fi, crunchy sound my amp gives me. And yes, most of what I like and play is in 4/4, but I also regularly work in 6/8 or 7/8.

As far as other instruments go, or musicians on the whole.... I don't immerse myself in their communities, so perhaps its best if I let others comment

[bass12]

Hood was probably referring more to the types of musicians who practice "art" music than to anyone else. One thing is for sure, musicologists are typically way more conservative than professional musicians!

[jmattbassplaya]

Hood has obviously never met any musicians before

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by Jeff2287

For anyone to play music deliberately within a specific style they must uphold certain traditions and expectations dictated by that style. Strong 4/4 drum beats and distorted guitar in rock music is one such example.

This is like saying that architects are naturally conservative because "they must uphold certain traditions and expectations dictated by" the style of Neo-classical. Or Art Deco. Or Spanish Colonial.

Or that fashion designers are naturally conservative because "they must uphold certain traditions and expectations dictated by" the style of formal wear. Or beach wear. Or corporate attire.

Virtually every creative profession has its particular collection of generally-recognized styles, genres, modes & motifs. It's not necessarily a reflection upon the personal values of the individual professional, merely to have become fluent in them...

As for me personally, well I think I've nearly worn out the "roll eyes (sarcastic)" smiley () around here - just using it to challenge the many traditionalists and various keepers of the flame of bass guitar orthodoxy who frequent TalkBass. (Funny how an instrument that's scarcely 55 years old can manage to have already accumulated so many conventions, regulations and restrictions...)

No, I'm not particularly conservative when it comes to music - other than having my own particular tastes, same as everyone else. I consider music an art form - not merely a means of entertainment. Therefore I'm generally not threatened when musicians use it to push a particular creative "envelope" and make a statement - regardless of whether the effort has managed to gain "official approval" from the powers that be - whoever they are...

MM

[superbassman2000]

Its an interesting thought--that sounds like it would mean that anybody who identifies with a genre would be conservative, as they can fit their music into a particular musical idiom...but that's a whole different thing to look at--I don't think it's conservative to say your music fits into a genre--i think it's more conservative to say that Coltrane "is jazz" or AC/DC "is rock"

Originally Posted by Jeff2287

The ethnomusicologist Mantle Hood once said (and I paraphrase) that musicians are some of the most conservative people. This statement need not be politically oriented. For anyone to play music deliberately within a specific style they must uphold certain traditions and expectations dictated by that style. Strong 4/4 drum beats and distorted guitar in rock music is one such example.

How musically conservative are musicians? How conservative do you think you are about music?

[Phalex]

I get paid for every note that I put out into the space, and I am workin cheap!

So yeah I'm conservative because it makes each individual note intrisically more valuable.

[uethanian]

you have to differentiate between players and composers...typically any player that follows a particular established tradition (in other words plays music that already exists in the expected format) is 'conservative.' composers can be one or the other or both; when writing music you have the option of meeting the audience expectation or breaking it.

[NickInMesa]

Seeing that we pretty much all follow Western musical conventions with 12 notes per octave and that few of us make new instruments with totally new sounds like nobody has heard before (except for the dude from Wish basses), I think we're all conservative.

Otherwise, politically, I don't know, I've seen and heard all sorts of things and I never gather with musicians to talk politics, seriously.

I live in a red State, anyway, I would expect most guys here to be right leaning.

[Jeff2287]

Well, I would like to point out that Mantle Hood was perhaps the first ethnomusicologist to emphasize the importance of actually playing that one studies. Granted that he primarily played with players of art music, he met innumerable musicians from all over the world, everywhere from (all over) Indonesia to Africa to Japan, India, etc. He was quite musically savvy.

What made me think to bring up this topic here was an interview with Trey Gunn, the former WARR guitar player from King Crimson where he brought up this idea that musicians are conservative and he elaborated that, in his opinion (and I paraphrase), rock musicians are the most conservative ones of the bunch, only comparable to right-wing evangelical Christians.

This statement made me consider the time I spent in a hard-core metal band. Even though we were pretty experimental, some things musical were givens and other things were taboo. Distortion? Given. Blast-beat? Given. Acoustic guitars? Taboo. Tapping (like jazz drumming)? TABOO! Guitar solo? Great. Drum solo? Okay. Bass solo? forget it.

What I'm getting at is that I find that many musicians have an unconcious list of dos and don'ts, things that are readily done and other things that we would normally never attempt to put into our music for fear of making it sound "cheesy" or "out of place".

Anyway, I've been trying to consider these rigid points of view and how to get around them. I was wondering if anyone had any experiences akin to this.

[fretlessguy]

After spending years trying to buck the norm, I came to the conclusion that if you are paid to do a particular style then you should play and use equipment that enhances that style. There are those who want a certain sound to fit with what they do, and if they are paying you to play, then that is their perogative, whether its a rigid view or not.
As for personal preference, that is different. When you are calling your own shots and paying for it, then you can do what you want to.

[Hawaii Islander]

Conservative notions in a particular brand/genre of music are what inevitably lead to the formation of new brands/genres of music. There will always be musicians and/or composers that want to move beyond what is common and established in order to create something new. It's common for bands to break up or change personnel from time to time in an effort for one or more of its members to move in a different direction, musically.

Limiting your playing to conform to the way a band expects for a given form of music because you are getting paid can be easily changed by forming your own band and setting your own rules.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by Jeff2287

What I'm getting at is that I find that many musicians have an unconcious list of dos and don'ts, things that are readily done and other things that we would normally never attempt to put into our music for fear of making it sound "cheesy" or "out of place".

Anyway, I've been trying to consider these rigid points of view and how to get around them. I was wondering if anyone had any experiences akin to this.

I see what you mean...

A few years ago I used to play with this classically-trained pianist/keyboards player. A talented guy who knew his stuff. Could play almost anything you write out for him. But, as with so many classically-trained musicians, he was a downright terrible improviser. And his time and his groove wasn't so swift either.

What I soon began to discover about him was that not only is he politically very conservative (I am not), but creatively he is also very orthodox, as he would at times find fault with my playing "out of the box" - as it apparently violated his rigid, proscribed sense of what was "proper" for a bassist to play...

(For the record, I am a tasteful player who generally has a very good bead on what is appropriate to play in any given idiom. But I am also an adventurous player who likes to keep things fresh. Apparently some players would prefer to keep things "stale".)

Rather than expend the time & energy necessary to broaden his mind and raise his consciousness, I found it much more expedient to simply cease playing with him - a very good musical technician. Not such a creative artist...

If I may go out on a limb here, I will volunteer just one additional point: And that is that in my many years of playing, I have noticed a distinct correlation (a correlation - not necessarily a cause & effect) between conservative social/cultural/political views, and a relative lack of creative vision as an artist. I think there are clear indicators as to why this may be so - which I will not explore in this forum. I leave it for others to put the virtual pieces of that particular puzzle together for themselves...

MM

[bassrique]

A higher percentage of creative people are anything but.