How do you ask someone not to play guitar?

powderfinger · #1 04-12-2011, 12:21 PM

So I've been jamming with some guys. We have a lead singer who is great (great singer... I write all of the originals he sings... FYI). I can't reiterate just how great a singer he is. However, his flaw= he thinks he is a guitarist too. Now, we have a lead player and a keyboard player, so we don't *really* need the lead singer to play guitar, but he says he feels "bare" without it (and I get that). BUT, the issue is.... he can't play worth a crap. His chords are sloppy. His timing is horrible. He is HORRIBLE. How should I approach this diplomatically? He is going to not take it well, regardless..

powderfinger · #2 04-12-2011, 12:23 PM

And one other issue with him Id like to address...

I sing several of my songs, and covers as well. One of them I do on piano, and it was a "hit" in my old band with the crowds. He seems very disinterested in anything I sing, and acts like it's taking away from his time or something.

And before anyone says get rid of him, I can't. He's my best friend for 25 years, and also my cousin...

Sorry...

byronkowalski · #3 04-12-2011, 12:26 PM

If he your best friend of 25 years, you should be well beyond falling out completely over something like this.
Just be honest with him, but with nicer words.

jaywa · #4 04-12-2011, 12:27 PM

We had the exact same issue with the singer/"guitarist" of my former band. Great singer, great stage presence, major liability as a guitarist. But didn't feel "comfortable" without one on and refused to just put it away and just be front man (which would have helped our band any number of ways).

Even worse, we had not one but TWO other guitarists already.

I'm not in the band anymore so it's no longer a concern of mine but I'm interested to see what others have to say anyway.

elgecko · #5 04-12-2011, 12:28 PM

Hand him a tambourine!

powderfinger · #6 04-12-2011, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by byronkowalski

If he your best friend of 25 years, you should be well beyond falling out completely over something like this.
Just be honest with him, but with nicer words.

The key to our friendship since the late 80s has been my ability to mostly ignore him and his ways.... this is our first time playing music together. We've had seperate bands all these years, and thought hell, we should play together now.

Bob Rock · #7 04-12-2011, 12:29 PM

Sounds like a bad case of LSD. All I can say is be up front and tell him like it is. If his interest is in the band and not him self he'll stop playing guitar and give you you're 15 minutes in the spot like. If not? Well what else can I say.

THand · #8 04-12-2011, 12:33 PM

Just have him turn it all the way down. That way he gets to strum along and hold a guitar but it doesnt affect anything.

Works for Bono

powderfinger · #9 04-12-2011, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Rock

Sounds like a bad case of LSD. All I can say is be up front and tell him like it is. If his interest is in the band and not him self he'll stop playing guitar and give you you're 15 minutes in the spot like. If not? Well what else can I say.

Well, that's the easy part. I think the problem is he knows the band could *probably* go on without him if needed. I've fronted a band before. I just didn't want to be strapped with having to sing every song. I like getting into my bass playing honestly and providing good harmony. He actually has NO choice whether I sing or not... I write the songs. He doesn't write at all.. he sings. Thats it. I started this band out of friendship and the desire to avoid the usual band BS.

The hard part is going to be getting him to put the guitar down. Maybe we can unplug him.. Elvis style. Or tambourine... sounds reasonable to me.

Bassdirty · #10 04-12-2011, 12:51 PM

I've had the same issue in the past..but with the singer not being able to sing OR play very well. One song, (really more than one, but one That comes to mind)was absolutely Horrible, and you could see it in the crowds faces.

I recorded our show..and told him we should NEVER do that song again.He went and watched the video..then said.."whats wrong with it?"..

My point is..if someone can't see that they suck, they will take offense to it, or take it the wrong way or what have you.No amount of "telling him nicely" or "being gentle" or "honest"..or whatever will change that.They will take it as a personal attack.

Imagine if you saw a blue car.You think its blue, because, to you ..it looks blue.If somebody tells you the car is yellow,and that you are wrong and just don't see it correctly, or don't no the difference between blue and yellow, how would you feel?

JMO,IME

Good luck.
.

dpbass613 · #11 04-12-2011, 12:57 PM

Here is my feeling, I had a similar issue with a prior singer who played keys...he really wasn't a great keyboard player and knew this, he just wanted to sing, but at the same time when the band started I explained that I would like to split vocal roles 75% to him 25% to me, both of us are capable singers, he has a higher range than me. He got frustrated when I tried to sing and was very disinterested, its a lead singer type thing. So i think you need to be careful if you tell him...hey we don't want you to play guitar, and also when i sing, we don't want you to play guitar...on those songs he is no longer a member of the band...
My solution was to form a side project band (that now lives on while the other band eventually disbanded, mainly due to a very bitter drummer who wasn't willing to move forward stylistically) and use that as my outlet for singing, and writing. If compromise can't be had in one group they were to understand that I had to go somewhere else.

In your case, its tough because you guys might have a good thing going...but as I like to say it, singers will be singers...they are the jealous type, its the reason i started singing in the first place, i was tired of whiney singers, so whenever I audition for something, I always explain I am a musician first singer second. Good luck man its a tough spot.

gnjpowell · #12 04-12-2011, 01:00 PM

Let him "play" just don't plug him in!

**TheEmptyCell** · #13 04-12-2011, 02:31 PM

Give him a Guitar Hero controller and explain that he might as well just play one of these compared to what his 'real' playing is worth.

Richland123 · #14 04-12-2011, 03:13 PM

If he insists on holding something, hand him a tambourine. Just make sure he can play it right.

ggunn · #15 04-12-2011, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elgecko

Hand him a tambourine!

No! That's worse!

ggunn · #16 04-12-2011, 03:37 PM

Actually, this is a more common situation than you might think. As others have suggested, letting him play buried down in the mix is a solution that has been applied many times (somebody already referred to Elvis) with success. You have to be up front with him, though; it can't be like Barney Fife and the "vocal microphone". He has to be in on it.

EDIT: I just reread the OP and realized that you said you were "jamming with" these guys. If you aren't calling yourself a band and playing out, it's a bit different. In a jam situation, sometimes you just have to grin and bear it and decide later whether to invite the guy back.

guroove · #17 04-12-2011, 03:52 PM

You should be able to find a way to make it work. He doesn't have to play all the time, and maybe he should stay away from playing rhythm. I'm not saying he should play lead parts, but he should play little licks that don't interfere with his singing. Also, you singing your songs is taking away from him, and I think he is justified in feeling that way. Some singers need breaks. I played in an 11 piece band where I would sing a song, the drummer sang one, and the piano player sang a bunch of songs. Our singer was cool with it because she felt that she needed breaks.

powderfinger · #18 04-12-2011, 03:58 PM

Thanks guys... I guess we will be having a "talk" soon.. haha

Shame though... I can deal with the bad guitar playing alot easier than I can the way he dismisses me as an equal (which is silly, because I do write all of the originals we do, and quite frankly have had quite a bit more recognition over the years than he..). My idea for this band was to be in it with a friend/family member (hopefully avoiding BS), and to do it like a Beatles thing... more than 1 frontman. Heck, I love bands with more than 1 singer... Beatles, Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Pink Floyd, etc. I thought it would be cool to BE that kind of band... guess he didnt...