how do you get into the west end, or broadway?

[Techmonkey]

just curious. if there's anything that could derail my hopeful career as a surgeon, it'd be the opportunity to play on a show like the lion king, or wicked. sure it's a dream, but what does it take to get that high up?

[CamMcIntyre]

Go to BassPlayer.tv under artist features click on "John Miller". He's one of the big contractors. I consider those videos to be a master class.

I'm pretty early on that path and the big thing that I've been told is networking and getting "in" with someone who already has the gig. Seems like in NYC, you get in through subbing-once people know you as a solid person and easy to work with, the work comes if you keep working at it.

Study with the top guys in your area & take in all the words of wisdom that you can.

[CamMcIntyre]

I forgot to include this part...I've been asking similar questions for the past several years and have had the chance to get some really good information.

What i said in my other post is the nutshell version. I've also asked guys [some are board members here] about gear for theater between actually asking the guys and reading about what they use for certain shows-i've got a general idea of what kinds of basses you need to have.

I posted a good chunk of it in the "Aspiring studio players thread." I feel the major difference between studio work & theater work is-theater, you often get to practice the book, have rehearsals, etc, but then you have to do it perfectly for 8 shows a week, 52 weeks a year [minus the time you sub out].

The two shows you have specifically asked about are great examples. I am going to use Wicked (Chicago cast specifically). I spent about 6 months studying with one of the sickest teachers and players on the planet-Tom Mendel. He's the guy who I am saving up to study with again. During the 6 months studying with him-i picked his brain about Wicked and theater playing. Check out Lakland.com & read the interview with Tom-he talks a bit about theater playing. It may sound like i'm going a bit overboard with praise...i'm not-he just made that big of an impact on me.

His main sub, Bill Harrison, is a member of this board. Bill has some killer videos on youtube & runs the "PlayJazzNow.com" site. Bill is another guy that I'd love to study with. I'm thankful that Bill was kind enough to answer some gear questions for me. Mainly the whole Double Bass thing-to go straight arco strings, hybrids, or any other suggestions. I was quite happy when he said "Spirocores Weichs are a good choice" because they are what I use now.

Back to Wicked. The gear for that show-the 2 times i saw it, Tom was using a Sadowsky Modern 5 for the fretted electric-I've heard that he's using a Lakland 5 lately, a Gary Willis Fretless [bass was ACTUALLY Gary Willis' bass-not just a signature bass...how nuts is that?], and a DB w/C extension [not 100% sure on the C extension part]. The variety of styles & sounds in that show is beyond belief. In I think "Defying Gravity" the bass part says "Get your Jaco on"-no joking. Amp wise-he had an SWR Super Red Head. On the DB there was a Wilson bridge pickup and an AMT mic. The AMT was switchable so that it was used primarily during the quieter parts/arco and the Wilson for the pizz/loud parts.

From listening to the show repeatedly & talking to Tom about it-a show like Wicked-you really need to have your A game goin on in 4 major areas.

1. "classical"/arco DB chops-there were times where it goes straight in on a thumb position note and then sixteenth note runs as more of a string section role than rhythm section. Crazy-I cite John Miller saying "Be honest with the contractor, if you aren't great with the bow-don't take a bow heavy gig."

2. Jazz/Pizz DB playing-thumping I & V and walking lines are a main stay of bass parts regardless of where you are at.

3. Bass Guitar [fretted]-finger style & slap. Know your grooves, and always play with a fat pocket. The slap bass has rarely come up for me, but when it does [see dance break in AIDA's "My Strongest Suit"] you gotta be able to do it.

4. Fretless Bass Guitar-great intonation and feel. Know how to get a variety of sounds & know when it is appropriate for them. Just going within the Jaco sound-his tone on the start of 'Cannonball' off of Black Maret vs. his tone on 'Come On, Come Over' off of his self titled.

An honest evaluation of myself is-i need to work on #1 & #4 the most. An even more honest evaluation is all of them. I'm competent enough to get by, and get some gigs, but-I want to be the best possible musician I can be.

If you have any questions about how to learn shows-hit me up. I was taught a very efficient way by JoAnn Daughtery (killer piano player & great teacher) that i apply to all the music i learn-regardless of if it's for a show, rock gig, or big band.

I put the method she taught me to the test-I was subbing in for a production of Disney's "High School Musical" and I had 4 hours to learn the book to show readiness. The 4 hours is a bit of a lie, I had 4 hours with the book to learn it. The previous about month, I had been listening to the sound track on my iPod heavily. In the 4 hours with the book, ran the main grooves of the songs [not entire songs] and worked out the 16th note runs. I read the rest of the book down at the dress rehearsal-it was a bit more relaxed than most dress rehearsals would be....this was a civic production in my hometown-so most of the people knew me from high school. I had several people come up to me during the breaks and say "Man, I wish i could sight read like that." Well-it's because I wasn't sight reading everything. I got the basic grooves down & then went at it.

So-if you want to get into that scene, in the West End-ask around to see who the top player is, buy a ticket to the show he plays for, go down to the pit during intermission/afterwards, and ask if he gives lessons. I did that with Tom & I am eternally grateful-twas the best $100 i spent [for the ticket].

Something else that I do is-i network at every opportunity. I'm 22, so facebook is a valid form of communication for me. Whenever i see an event posting for a Staged Reading or anything theater related-i contact the hosts. I did that for something called "Rejected Hearts" & I ended up playing for the reading. From doing that, I got back in front of some guys that knew me from Roosevelt [school] & that lead to us talking about me playing with them. That lead to me joining "Monday Night New Voices Chicago"-it's a musical theater showcase that highlights up & coming singers, song writers, and other theater talent. In my case-it's a chance to network with like minded people who are at a variety of stages of the journey.

For tips on networking, check out Jeffrey Gitomer's "The Little Black Book of Networking"-it's right around $20 here-not too bad price, but the information is great.

Listen and see all the shows that you can.

If you have any specific questions-hit me up, I'm up for email, AIM [Ray5Cam] or on here.

[Techmonkey]

wow. I can't express how grateful I am for this man, it's like... the holy grail of useful information.

seriously... I never would have thought to pop down to the pit in the interval or anything like that. I'll definitely check out the networking book, and I'll get my facebook page up to scratch so I can use that more usefully.

especially good thinking about getting the tricky runs in beforehand - I rarely get to see the score before I have to sight-read it but when I do this is definitely what my plan will be.

I agree with you on the range of sounds in wicked - that particular show is probably my favourite musical (and I've seen a lot!) mostly because of the score.

I think my reading is definitely my weakest part. I mean my double bass chops are decent - just come back from touring italy with my orchestra, and some of the pieces we played really work us out a bit, so that's great experience... but I don't have a C extension! something to think about. My pocket playing is probably my forte, as I play in a pop band... lots of smooth latin grooves which require just holding back and enjoying the tracks.

I really really appreciate your help and advice mate. I'm extremely jealous that you get to study with Tom Mendel but who knows what might happen if I get chatting to people!

thanks again, and good luck with your lessons! I may well shoot you a pm if I think of anything... and if there's any way I could possibly return the favour I would love to!

For me, some useful sounds include:

A "Classic" Fender Jazz or Precision bass guitar with flatwounds for shows that require a Motown-inspired sound like The Wiz, etc.,

a "Modern" Five-String bass guitar for contemporary musicals--however, you can often use the Fender with great results for new musicals if the book and production allow for it. More important than electronics, pickups, and all that is having a fat, musical tone.

and double bass, arco and pizz, for obvious reasons. Most of my theatre gigs don't include any bass guitar work. If you're working for companies that do "golden age" Rogers & Hammerstein-type productions, you need solid arco and pizz chops and a big sound--some of those shows are written for large orchestras with multiple basses!

As Cam said, fretless intonation is big, too. Personally, I haven't encountered a fretless book yet. Which shows call for fretless bass guitar?

Aside from musical ability, reliability, punctuality, professionalism, networking, and patience all go a long way in the theatre business.

[DGbass70]

also go to www.bassplayer.tv
and go to the section that says "BASS BRUNCH"(artist features)
they talk a little bit about this stuff you're asking about

[CamMcIntyre]

Originally Posted by appler

As Cam said, fretless intonation is big, too. Personally, I haven't encountered a fretless book yet. Which shows call for fretless bass guitar?

.

The only one that I'm 100% sure about is Wicked.

I agree with Appler about the gear though. For me my Modern 5 is a StingRay5 w/nickel rounds, my 'vintagey' bass is a Fender P-bass w/flats, and my Double bass has Spiro Weichs on it.

I did "Starting Here, Starting Now" at Roosevelt and I used just 2 basses. For one tune the music director wanted a more vintagey boogalooish sound & feel. So instead of bringing out another bass [tiny pit space + i can switch 2 basses easily, 3 i don't have setup]. i got the sound out of my Ray5. I boosted the bass, cut the treble, and played with a pick. I went for a Joe Osborne meets Carol Kaye sound. The music director loved it.

Techmonkey-no prob about the advice. I'm doing the same thing. I love playing theater, and I'm doing whatever I can to help achieve it.

[CamMcIntyre]

A bit of an update. Networking is a huge key.

I'm in the last stages of talks to do 2 runs. The first one would be 'Damn Yankees' from Sept 14th thru Nov 3rd playing Thursday thru Sunday. The 2nd one would be 'Gentlemen Prefer Blondes' playing Friday-Sun [Sun Matinee] from November 14th thru Feb 2nd. Both shows are non-equity. It's not quite Broadway or the West End, but it is a stepping stone.

How i'm getting these shows is easy. Networking. Damn Yankees, the piano player/band director is the guy who was Music Director for a run of "My Fair Lady" that i did in July & August. I got the recommendation for that show from a music director that i played for while at Roosevelt. Side tidbit-i'm doing a gig with her [Bonnie Shadrake] on Oct 26th where i'm subbing for her regular bass player.

The 2nd show, I'm getting [pending any sort of last second change] through doing a freebie called Monday Night New Voices Chicago. The music director of that is the music director of this. I got Monday Night New Voices for 2 reasons-I played bass for all the theater stuff at Roosevelt [including a show written by a student], and when I saw the staged reading for 'Rejected Hearts' i contacted the people about playing it. The producers of Chicago cast of MNNV saw me, remembered who I was, and that lead to playing with them.

Networking, networking, networking. Activity breeds activity.

Check out the "Advice for Aspiring Studio Players" that is a sticky at the top of this forum. A lot of the same advice holds true.

My goal is to do as many of this level of show as I can to get my name established, from here-I'd like to sub for an equity show eventually, and after that-I'd like to get an equity (union) gig.

all the best.

[joelc1319]

Subscribed.

I've played a few local shows (Hoboken, NJ), and would like to play in some community theater-type gigs this summer if possible. However, it's all to build my resume as a pit bass player, hopefully ending up playing at the top level someday. I have one more semester to go in college, but I'm going to continue playing shows through that semester too. I have contact with at least two musical directors that I have worked with and hope to keep networking from there.

Cam, would you say it's beneficial to play as many shows as possible, and be familiar with them, so you can have a large repertoire at your disposal? Kind of like giving yourself the edge when real show shows up on Broadway...

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Techmonkey

how do you get into the west end

Get a train to Victoria then a tube to Leicester Square or Picadilly Circus and there you are!!

[Phalex]

I'm guessing pretty much the same way you get to Carnegie Hall.

[Febs]

Originally Posted by joelc1319

Cam, would you say it's beneficial to play as many shows as possible, and be familiar with them, so you can have a large repertoire at your disposal? Kind of like giving yourself the edge when real show shows up on Broadway...

In my experience, it is important to play as many shows as possible, but necessarily for the reason you state. When I hire subs or recommend musicians to music directors, I look for musicians who (1) are great readers, (2) are versatile and will be able to play competently in a wide range of styles, (3) have the gear necessary to play the show and the competence to know how to use it, and (4) are reliable. Whether a person has played that specific show before is less important, so long as I know that he'll be able to read the book and play in the styles that it calls for. Playing as many shows as possible is one way that you develop the ability to do that.

[joelc1319]

Originally Posted by Febs

In my experience, it is important to play as many shows as possible, but necessarily for the reason you state. When I hire subs or recommend musicians to music directors, I look for musicians who (1) are great readers, (2) are versatile and will be able to play competently in a wide range of styles, (3) have the gear necessary to play the show and the competence to know how to use it, and (4) are reliable. Whether a person has played that specific show before is less important, so long as I know that he'll be able to read the book and play in the styles that it calls for. Playing as many shows as possible is one way that you develop the ability to do that.

Thanks for the quick response, Febs. I definitely see where you're coming from in terms of being able to play a wide range of styles. I assume it would be safe to say that it's alright to not limit oneself to just playing the shows as a way to develop the styles, but to play a variety of music in general...I guess the reason why it's better to play the actual shows is because it increases reading abilities since you have the actual score in front of you as opposed to just playing by ear. Then again both the style and the actual reading are both important!

Now a question to you, Febs, would you say that playing shows (Broadway or other) is something that you get into mainly by subbing for people? I would assume that many musical directors normally don't have the time to audition people for a particular show, but I could be wrong?

[CamMcIntyre]

Originally Posted by Febs

In my experience, it is important to play as many shows as possible, but necessarily for the reason you state. When I hire subs or recommend musicians to music directors, I look for musicians who (1) are great readers, (2) are versatile and will be able to play competently in a wide range of styles, (3) have the gear necessary to play the show and the competence to know how to use it, and (4) are reliable. Whether a person has played that specific show before is less important, so long as I know that he'll be able to read the book and play in the styles that it calls for. Playing as many shows as possible is one way that you develop the ability to do that.

+1000.

I agree with everything Febs said, and I'd add this-I'd play as many shows as possible in a way to get your name out to as many music directors as possible.

[CamMcIntyre]

So more networking in action. The guy I did "Damn Yankees" with called me to play "Evita" with him. We just opened a week or so ago. Totally different book from "Damn Yankees".

An update to an earlier post...from subbing in with Bonnie Shadrake's group, I landed a regular gig leading a Trio backing up the Uptown Poetry Slam at the Green Mill. Thank you Bonnie.

I'm just at the point where I'm doing long enough runs to need sub players. I got burned by a sub I had lined up 2 days before the gig...i spent a solid 4 hours making phone calls. The guy I found did a good job though, and I'm going to keep his contact info.

Joel, I feel you about school. I spent 3 years in a music conservatory, i actually dropped/transferred into a totally different program. I am working on a marketing/management degree online now. I used to be a jazz major. As soon as I got out of Roosevelt, a few great connections happened, and I've had maybe 3-4 weekends off since September. I'm 22 and am working nearly every weekend. I've had great luck thus far and I'm hoping to see it take off. I think he's in your area, but someone good to talk to would be Arnold on here. He's been one of my main sources of theater information. Killer player and a great guy.

I forget who said it, for some reason I think it was Irio O'Farril, "You're only a good sight reader until a book kicks your ass."

I had said experience with "Evita". My Fair Lady, Damn Yankees, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes-i could/did sight read the book and have it turn out pretty well. Evita...hahahahaha. I'm still shedding parts of the book and we opened a bit over a week ago. This has been an eye opener to shed more. I'm working my way through the book Standing in the Shadows of Motown .

all the best.

[joelc1319]

Originally Posted by CamMcIntyre

So more networking in action. The guy I did "Damn Yankees" with called me to play "Evita" with him. We just opened a week or so ago. Totally different book from "Damn Yankees".

An update to an earlier post...from subbing in with Bonnie Shadrake's group, I landed a regular gig leading a Trio backing up the Uptown Poetry Slam at the Green Mill. Thank you Bonnie.

I'm just at the point where I'm doing long enough runs to need sub players. I got burned by a sub I had lined up 2 days before the gig...i spent a solid 4 hours making phone calls. The guy I found did a good job though, and I'm going to keep his contact info.

Joel, I feel you about school. I spent 3 years in a music conservatory, i actually dropped/transferred into a totally different program. I am working on a marketing/management degree online now. I used to be a jazz major. As soon as I got out of Roosevelt, a few great connections happened, and I've had maybe 3-4 weekends off since September. I'm 22 and am working nearly every weekend. I've had great luck thus far and I'm hoping to see it take off. I think he's in your area, but someone good to talk to would be Arnold on here. He's been one of my main sources of theater information. Killer player and a great guy.

I forget who said it, for some reason I think it was Irio O'Farril, "You're only a good sight reader until a book kicks your ass."

I had said experience with "Evita". My Fair Lady, Damn Yankees, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes-i could/did sight read the book and have it turn out pretty well. Evita...hahahahaha. I'm still shedding parts of the book and we opened a bit over a week ago. This has been an eye opener to shed more. I'm working my way through the book Standing in the Shadows of Motown .

all the best.

Cam, great to hear from you. You're not going to believe this, but your entire post hits home for me. I'm going to PM you about the details.

I'm definitely making my way through school, and am trying to really make the right connections. I'm inspired by your story, especially because I envision this as a "weekend gig" kind of thing at least in the beginning, with hopes of taking it to the next level as time goes on.

It's funny because I also bought Standing in the Shadows of Motown this past summer (or rather gift from the girlfriend), and use it for site reading whenever possible (plus the music is just fantastic).

Again, everything here is really inspiring, and expect a PM from me soon...

[tplyons]

It's all about networking and professionalism. You can be the best player in the world, but if nobody knows you and people don't like working with you, you won't get the gig.

My middle school band director who later rose to district musical director played in Les Miserables every Sunday for eight years as the drummer played in church. My director was the #1 alternate drummer for that show, and got calls for several others.

When Metallica came to New York on the S&M tour, he got the call to play tympani. I believe one of the French horn players was in the orchestra with my director for Les Mis and found him to be reliable, courteous, and friendly.

Needless to say, he doesn't take many gigs anymore due to time constraints raising a family and running a district's music program. But he always told me, it's all about who you know, showing up early, being ready, and doing your homework.

Play the local shows, get to know people, pass around business cards. It'll take a while, but one day, you'll get a call.

Also, never burn bridges.

All advice that a Broadway backup had given me.

[joelc1319]

Typlyons, that's excellent advice. What's nice about different people saying a lot of the same things is that it proves that these techniques are what make it happen. The more people that can attest to the advice, the more true and IMPORTANT it becomes. Cheers!

[Febs]

Originally Posted by joelc1319

Now a question to you, Febs, would you say that playing shows (Broadway or other) is something that you get into mainly by subbing for people? I would assume that many musical directors normally don't have the time to audition people for a particular show, but I could be wrong?

Well, I can tell you that I have never had to do a formal audition to play a show, and I have never asked another musician to audition for me. In reality, when you sub for someone, you are auditioning. Any time that I have a sub in for a show, when I get back, I'll check with the MD and other musicians in the pit whose opinions I trust (especially the drummer) to see how the sub did. If he did a good job, then he'll go on my list, and if he struggled, he won't. It is all about networking, and subbing for others is a great way to network.

[dakpluto]

Originally Posted by appler

As Cam said, fretless intonation is big, too. Personally, I haven't encountered a fretless book yet. Which shows call for fretless bass guitar?

Without You from Rent is written for Fretless (and written for 24 frets, going up to the G)


I've also locally been working on my show resume to hopefully someday move beyond doing regional theater.

Shows I've done last few years:

Little Shop of Horrors
Christmas, My Way
Smokey Joe's Cafe
They're Playing our Song
Light My Way
Kiss Me, Kate
Damn Yankees
Crazy for You
Guys and Dolls
Into the Woods
All Shook Up!

and shows with RTE Productions that did music from:

Dreamgirls
Rent
Hairspray
Footloose
Les Miserables
Lion King
Showboat
Ragtime
Wicked
The Wiz
Wizard of Oz
Aida


I think I've been covering a nice wide range of shows