how do YOU use keys when writing music?

[hanx]

This isn't a "how to" question, i'm interested in a totally personal perspective from those of you who write or co-write your own music.

What role do keys (as in A minor, C major etc.) play in the creative process for YOU?

Do you decide on a key which fits the feel you hope to acheive then fit your piece relatively closely to that key?

Do you just jam or write totally free-form by feel and sound, go with just what sounds good, and any resemblence to an established key is pure coincidence?

Do you work out what key your guitarist's tabs are in then write a compatable bass line in that key?

I'm totally new to the music thing and comming from a science and visual arts background, but i keep getting in a debate with someone way more musically experienced than myself about the usefullness of established keys, i'm looking for a few other informed perspectives.

[Bruce Lindfield]

A lot of pop/rock music is ambiguous about key and a lot of Jazz changes key every few bars.

IMO it is only classical music that takes the concept seriously as starting point.

And for most people it's only ever an issue when they are working with a female singer who annoys everybody else in the band by insiting that you do the song in another key ...and another key ...etc. that still doesn't fit her limited range!!

[hanx]

For a bit of fun i tried to work out what key inagaddadavidea was in, i reckoned no key (since it had nearly every note in the octave) but my more experienced friend said A minor. It seems to be A minor with maybe the odd extra note here and there, and a whole section in B minor. So between them those two keys cover the whole octave but within their own sections it's pretty tight to key. I wonder how deliberate that was?

yeah... i've never been fond of female vocalists, most women just aren't built to sing, they just don't have the power of a male voice.

[BassChuck]

What key to use, for me, is determined by what group is playing the music. If its a jazz band, I'll go more for the flat keys, rock band I'll go more for the sharp keys.... in other words what they are mostly used to. For singers... gotta go with their key (if nothing more than to eliminate some of the btchng).

As far as determining what key a piece is in, remember that picking a key doesn't exclude the use of notes out of the root scale. Rock and jazz tunes that use a pentatonic or modal scale will have chords that aren't all in one key in the classical sense. 'Key' is just an organizing way of thinking of how the notes and chords work together.

[hanx]

So BassChuck, would you pick a key at the beginning, but use it pretty flexabely?

[Fassa Albrecht]

Yes, because worship music tends to revolve heavily around keys.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by hanx

So BassChuck, would you pick a key at the beginning, but use it pretty flexabely?

I think that key might normally come into it when you are trying to harmonise a tune and decide what chords to use.

So - if you have a tune in your head and then think about what key you might be in at any point - that will help you choose which chords can used and sound "right" - as in consonant!

Of course you could choose dissonant chords for a particular "sound" - but deciding on a key narrows down your choice of chords, if that's what you want...?

As in - it can be an "aid" or help to harmonisation, rather than just trial and error of "what sounds good" with this melody.

[Godbody]

Reminds me of a punk anecdote I heard...

Screeching Weasel was playing a show, and Duff McKagan happened to be in attendance. He's a fan of the band, and asked if he could sit in for the second set. The band was excited, and of course said yes. When he got up to play the first song, Ben Weasel called the tune. Duff asked the guitarist (I think it was Danny Vapid) what key it was in. Danny looked at him blankly and said "......key?"

I also recall seeing in extra footage to the Metallica S&M dvd that Michael Kamen asked the band to write down all the keys that their songs were in, and the band asked him, "what's a key?"

Anyway, when I write bass parts, if there's an established guitar part, I try and figure out what scale he intends to work with, and go from there. If I'm writing the whole thing, I decide what kind of sound I want and pick a scale, but I don't always stick with it. Sometimes I just have to stop in the middle of the song and noodle around until I hear the note that fits best.


As far as changing keys for female singers, its a relief to know I'm not the only one who's frustrated. Try working with two female singers who are trying to do harmonies in a cover song originally sung by a man, and then you will know the true meaning of pain. No, I cannot 'just move everything up a half step'! That can change the entire song!

Honestly, I think that's why I don't enjoy listening to bands with female singers.

[BassChuck]

Originally Posted by hanx

So BassChuck, would you pick a key at the beginning, but use it pretty flexabely?

If I was doing an arrangement of a tune I'd start in the original key and only change if there was a good reason. For instance, if it was a blues in B, and I was adding a horn section to the music, and there was no special reason to keep it in B, I'd lower it to Bb. Horn players generally would be more comfortable soloing in Bb than B... but understand that pros can deal with anything.

If it was an original song, I'd go with whatever key it sounding in... at least in the begining stages. If there was a reason to change key I would. For instance, if I composed something and it was in Db, and a rock band was going to play it, I would change to D.

Working with singers cancels all levels of common sense and concern for instrumentalist.

[anon65884001]

I literally just put few notes together, and they somehow ends up being in a key

[Lady Kayri]

I think it depends on your own songwriting process. I've not done a lot of songwriting yet, but at the moment I normally start with lyrics, then come up with the melody to sing the lyrics by/from. From there I try and figure out which key(s) will match the melody and then what chords will work best with the sound / mood I want to create. Keys will affect which chords you use, and both key/chords will affect the mood the song creates (or at least is supposed to try and create.) Sometimes the bass line comes first; other times the guitar / keys come first. Stuff gets adjusted according to what seems to work best as I go along. Right now I'm working with a woman singer with a fairly limited range, but I expect I'd do much of the same thing if I was working with a male singer, a duo (either male/female, 2 men, or 2 ladies...) Only once did the harmony/melody come to me first, and the words later; usually it's the words that start popping into my head, along with bits and pieces of the melody. I know several other songwriters who 'hear' or compose the music first, then find words to match. I suspect this is a fairly individualistic process, and everyone does it a little differently.

[alapantera]

I jingle them.

[keb]

I tend to write a lot of stuff in some permutation of B or F#, because for whatever reason the "colors" of those notes (and various associated scales) appeals to me the most. But it's definitely not a hard and fast rule. And I love to transpose for effect.