How to enter a half-diminished chord into Finale?

[Eli M.]

I've been preparing some lead sheets in Finale, which I haven't done in a while, and I need to put in a half-diminished chord (circle with a line through it). I can't figure out the key I need to press - for a fully diminished chord you just type in "o" as in "Fo7" but I don't know if there's a way to put in the half diminished symbol. Anyone know how to do this?

[NJL]

Have you tried a zero?

How about just using a Minor chord with a flat five?

[Gard]

Originally Posted by NJL

How about just using a Minor chord with a flat five?

Ding!

I bet if you write it as "Fmin7b5" it will work perfectly...almost no one I know these days uses "half diminished".

[Phil Smith]

Why not just select the chord using the chord selector page?

[NJL]

Originally Posted by Gard

Ding!

I bet if you write it as "Fmin7b5" it will work perfectly...almost no one I know these days uses "half diminished".

Or how about like this:

FMajb7b3b5



...Just trying to become a trend setter...

[Eli M.]

I considered using m7b5 - although technically correct, this particular chord in this particular place doesn't sound to me like an altered m7 chord.

I just tried entering a 0, but that doesn't produce the half-diminished symbol.

I'm using the 2003 version of Finale, maybe the newer versions have this chord in their library. If nobody here knows how to do it, I can ask around when I go to class tomorrow (I have theory and orchestration tomorrow, someone's bound to know).

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

I've worked with Finale from long ago and as far as I remember, I've always found the half-diminished symbol in the suffixes library. I assume you're putting chords into your piece with the "manual input" method (from which you can find the circle with the line) instead of the "type into score" method. Anyway, these are the key combinations for getting the symbol typing it into the score (for all the Finale fonts):

- Maestro font: Alt 0191
- Maestro percussion: Shift O
- Jazz: Alt 0191
- Jazz text: Not present
- Jazz chord: Alt 0187
- Jazz percussion: Shift O
- Engraver: Alt 0191
- Engraver extras: Shift O
- Engraver text: Not present
- Engraver time: Not present

Hope this helps.

[Eli M.]

Originally Posted by Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

I've worked with Finale from long ago and as far as I remember, I've always found the half-diminished symbol in the suffixes library. I assume you're putting chords into your piece with the "manual input" method (from which you can find the circle with the line) instead of the "type into score" method. Anyway, these are the key combinations for getting the symbol typing it into the score (for all the Finale fonts):

- Maestro font: Alt 0191
- Maestro percussion: Shift O
- Jazz: Alt 0191
- Jazz text: Not present
- Jazz chord: Alt 0187
- Jazz percussion: Shift O
- Engraver: Alt 0191
- Engraver extras: Shift O
- Engraver text: Not present
- Engraver time: Not present

Hope this helps.

I was using Type Into Score and then tried Manual Input.

I don't quite understand your directions. Am I supposed to just type Alt 0191 and the symbol should appear (it doesn't)?

How do I find the symbol using the Manual Input method?

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

Originally Posted by Eli Maniscalco

I was using Type Into Score and then tried Manual Input.

I don't quite understand your directions. Am I supposed to just type Alt 0191 and the symbol should appear (it doesn't)?

How do I find the symbol using the Manual Input method?

Weird. It works for me. In Maestro font, when I'm in "Type into score", click on a note and type 0191 while holding the Alt key. A "¿" symbol appears first, but when I move to the next note it changes to the circle with the line (Alt 0191 is the combination for "¿" in regular text fonts).

Manual input is the method I normally use. Assuming you selected the "Manual input" option in the "Chord" menu, click on a notehead and the "Chord definition" dialog box should appear. Type the root of the chord in the "Chord symbol" field if different to the one that appears. For the suffix, click on the "Advanced >>" button and the "Chord definition" box should show a new section in the bottom: "Numeric definition", with three sections: "Root", "Alternate bass" and "Suffix". In the "Suffix" section there's a "Select..." button. Click on it and the chord suffix library should appear. For the default Finale document (Maestro font), the symbol you're looking for is # 64. Select it, OK, and you're done. Let me know if it works for you.

[Eli M.]

Originally Posted by Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

Weird. It works for me. In Maestro font, when I'm in "Type into score", click on a note and type 0191 while holding the Alt key. A "¿" symbol appears first, but when I move to the next note it changes to the circle with the line (Alt 0191 is the combination for "¿" in regular text fonts).

Manual input is the method I normally use. Assuming you selected the "Manual input" option in the "Chord" menu, click on a notehead and the "Chord definition" dialog box should appear. Type the root of the chord in the "Chord symbol" field if different to the one that appears. For the suffix, click on the "Advanced >>" button and the "Chord definition" box should show a new section in the bottom: "Numeric definition", with three sections: "Root", "Alternate bass" and "Suffix". In the "Suffix" section there's a "Select..." button. Click on it and the chord suffix library should appear. For the default Finale document (Maestro font), the symbol you're looking for is # 64. Select it, OK, and you're done. Let me know if it works for you.

Thanks! It worked. I did it through Manual Input.

[Eli M.]

New problem: it won't let me put a 7 after the chord. When I do that, it turns the half-diminished symbol into an upside down question mark.

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

Originally Posted by Eli Maniscalco

New problem: it won't let me put a 7 after the chord. When I do that, it turns the half-diminished symbol into an upside down question mark.

Did you put the half-diminished symbol with manual input and then typed the 7 in the "Chord symbol" field (after the "¿" that appears there?)

[Eli M.]

Originally Posted by Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

Did you put the half-diminished symbol with manual input and then typed the 7 in the "Chord symbol" field (after the "¿" that appears there?)

Yes, I think that's the problem. I can't figure out how to get the 7 as a symbol and not have to type it in.

o7 is available as a symbol, so I'm wondering if there's one for the half-diminished sign.

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

If you tried to put the suffix the way I asked (¿7 in the Chord symbol field), when you click on OK Finale will ask you: "Could not find chord suffix "¿7". Would you like to add it to the chord suffix library?". When you click on "Yes", a "Chord suffix editor" box will appear, in which you'll see a small white square over the first symbol you wrote ("¿"). With the "Prev" and "Next" buttons you can move the square through the symbols. What you have to do is set the font for each symbol. The "Set font" button will allow you to do this. Maestro or Jazz are the fonts you need. Don't forget that you must change each symbol one by one moving the white square with the "Prev" and "Next" buttons and making changes as necessary. The "Set play" button allows you to get the chord to sound the way you want. Let me know if you want info on this (and if the problem was solved, of course).

[Eli M.]

Thanks again, it worked. Now, how does "set play" work?

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

When you click on "Set play", a "Suffix Keynumber Offsets" box appear. There are four little boxes that can be filled with numbers, but with the ">>" button you can get much more boxes to fill. These boxes are for setting the intervals present in the chord, measured in semitones. I'll use a C Maj7-9 as an example (this works based on the key of C, but Finale will transpose accordingly into the piece): Which intervals are present in this chord? Root, major third (4 semitones from the root), perfect fifth (7 semitones from the root), major seventh (11 semitones from the root) and ninth (14 semitones from the root). So, those are the numbers you must type in the boxes: "4" in #1, "7" in #2, "11" in #3 and "14" in #4. For additional extensions, let's say adding a 13 to the chord (21 semitones from the root), you must use the ">>" button to move to the next box (#5) and type "21" there.

Sometimes this results in very high-pitched sounding chords, so maybe it's a good idea to write the intervals one octave lower. For this, you must use negative numbers, and you must start with the octave-lower root, which is 12 semitones below the original (I don't know if Finale uses the middle C as an starting point). For a C Maj7-9 chord, then you should type:

"-12" (root), "-8" (Major third. In this case it's 8 semitones below the root), "-5" (perfect fifth - 5 semitones BTR), "-1" (one semitone BTR) and "2" (2 semitones above the root). "9" if you're adding the 13th of the chord (9 semitones above the root).

Again, please don't hesitate to ask if you need further explanations. Hope this helps.

[geshel]

Originally Posted by Eli Maniscalco

Yes, I think that's the problem. I can't figure out how to get the 7 as a symbol and not have to type it in.

o7 is available as a symbol, so I'm wondering if there's one for the half-diminished sign.

Well, technically, putting the '7' after the half-dim symbol is redundant. A half-diminished chord can't not have a seventh in it.

[Eli M.]

Originally Posted by geshel

Well, technically, putting the '7' after the half-dim symbol is redundant. A half-diminished chord can't not have a seventh in it.

That is correct - although I don't think I've ever seen it without the 7.

Since I have a huge paper to write now, I will be figuring out the chord playback tomorrow.

[Freaky Fender]

What if you just left the upside down question mark in there for kicks?

It'd confuse the hell out of guitar players.

[mikemulcahy]

Just double stop a suicide K flat, it's the universal stinger.


Mike