How hard to push a kid? - Page 2

Kmonk · #21 02-24-2013, 07:23 PM

Do not push your kids into doing anything. If you do you run the risk of them resenting you and possibly withdrawing from trying anything. When parents push kids into doing anything they usually do so in order to live vicariously through their children. Your son is only ten. Kids need to explore and try different things in order to figure what they are really interested in. My son had tried guitar and bass and finally came to the conclusion that he didn't want to play at all. When he was 16 he developed an interest in drawing and has become very good at it. He is now studying computer programming and hopes to design and do artwork for the entertainment industry including bands and video games. Let your son decide what he wants to do. Your only concerns should be that he is safe, healthy and happy. Everything else is secondary.

punkjazzben · #22 02-24-2013, 07:33 PM

You've planted the seed. That's a start. Of course, don't push him into anything, but music is going to be beneficial to his intellectual and social development. That's why music is increasingly being seen as a core part of the school curriculum - especially for younger kids.

Create opportunities for him to explore music in his own time and way, and see if you can work out what sort of thing would inspire him. He's probably a bit young for concerts, but thats a good place to start when he's old enough. Let him approach music and being a musician in his own way and style; let him own it by enabling him to direct the process to a large extent.

(My fiancé is a primary school teacher, so we talk about this stuff regularly. When kids take ownership of their learning, they do it so much better.)

Once he's 12 or 13, when being in a band starts to become cool, he will jump at the opportunity to make music with his mates.

Phalex · #23 02-24-2013, 07:36 PM

I'd keep paying for the lessons for the moment and talk to his instructor. If his instructor doesn't think he's making progress, that's the time to drop the lessons.

I myself practice way less than I should. I really only work on my bass stuff when I have a deadline, and a clear goal to accomplish. Learning new music to play with my new band? Heck yeah! Running through modes and scales instead of doing anything else? Not so much.

Do you play music with your kid? Tell him you'd like to play some bass / drum stuff. Give him stuff to work on to reach that goal, and spend some one on one time playing with him.

Playing with my old man would have been awesome when I was a kid!

seang15 · #24 02-24-2013, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kmonk

Do not push your kids into doing anything. If you do you run the risk of them resenting you and possibly withdrawing from trying anything. When parents push kids into doing anything they usually do so in order to live vicariously through their children. Your son is only ten. Kids need to explore and try different things in order to figure what they are really interested in. My son had tried guitar and bass and finally came to the conclusion that he didn't want to play at all. When he was 16 he developed an interest in drawing and has become very good at it. He is now studying computer programming and hopes to design and do artwork for the entertainment industry including bands and video games. Let your son decide what he wants to do. Your only concerns should be that he is safe, healthy and happy. Everything else is secondary.

THIS. So totally this.

morgansterne · #25 02-24-2013, 07:42 PM

I "taught" my son to play chess when he was around five. We'd just play with the pieces, pretending they were armies or whatever. Then I'd gradually introduce the rules, one by one. It took a long time and these days when he tells people "I guess I taught myself to play chess," I just smile and nod.

This approach has not worked with getting him to practice the drums (his chosen instrument). But I remind myself that I spent two years with my parents bugging me to practice the trumpet. I hated it and really wanted to give up. Then suddenly I decided I was getting ok at it, and started to practice about 30 minutes a day, without any prompting.

When your kid finds his passion, be there for him and support him 100 percent! Let him try out different things and encourage him to give his skills time to develop. I tell my son, "if you keep up with practicing you will surprise yourself with how good you've gotten and then it's a lot of fun. But you've gotta keep working at it till you get there."

two fingers · #26 02-24-2013, 07:46 PM

I used to have a lot of young students. There's only one trick that worked for me. Teach them at least part of one of their favorites songs. If you don't play drums, have SOMEBODY teach the kid something he just loves to listen to. I made a deal with all of my young students. Bring me a CD of your 5 favorite songs. And stick with me for X number of weeks. At the end of those weeks I will take an entire lesson to teach you something you love.

It worked almost every time.

**cyclopsbookworm** · #27 02-24-2013, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunnBass

I am really disappointed at the content of this thread vs. the title.

Lol. I think anything over 10 newtons is a felony. Probably should avoid it altogether.

**cyclopsbookworm** · #28 02-24-2013, 07:54 PM

In seriousness though, it depends on a lot of things. I think the 'never push your kids' concept is too lax. And I think the 'cram it down their throats' tactic is too aggressive. I believe in challenging people, and really wish I had more of that when I was young. We couldn't ever afford instruments, single mom...you know the deal. Now I'm playing a lot of catch up, now that I can afford my own stuff. Not a knock against my mom at all...if you can't afford it you can't afford it. Would have been nice if that weren't true.

I guess to answer the question, 'in all things, moderation' is how I go about it. Push some, but don't shove, I guess.

Hawkbone · #29 02-24-2013, 08:03 PM

on video games - they have their place too, although I've come close to tossing the works. One thing I did that had some success - I made up a log sheet for each of them with columns for date, time on, time off. I told them (and stuck to my word) that I wouldn't review the sheets, it was a tool for them. Advised them to log the beginning and end of each game session. At the end of two weeks, one of them came to me and said he didn't realize he was spending over 40h/week on x-box, he wasn't happy with it and resolved to spend his time more wisely (just not practicing drums).

Youngest son has always required a bit of a push now and then. He tries, isn't instantly a pro and wants to quit. So I have to remind him of all the times he's been through that process since he was learned to talk, and how he always gets really good with some work and practice. The last time it happened was when he started guitar lessons at 8. I pushed him along for a year and once he realized he was good, he was off and running. Now I can head him off before he gets too down about not getting something new right away.

alexlocurto · #30 02-24-2013, 08:05 PM

As far as I can tell, I'm the only 'kid' who's commented thus far, so I'll give my input.

My dad is a guitar player. He started playing in the '60s, learned blues rock stuff from then to the late '70s, and learned shred-type stuff in the '80s. At this point he's a six string wizard. That's the musical background for my two brothers and me. Older brother takes up guitar. Gets some pushing, starts to play on his own, stops getting pushed. Younger brother gets a Pearl drum kit. Gets some pushing, starts to play on his own, stops getting pushed. I get a bass. I never got pushed (I don't know why...). I'm the only one out of my brothers that still plays, despite older brother learning on a $1400 pre-Fender Jackson Soloist and a Mesa Boogie Mark III.

Some kids thrive with the right amount of push. I have friends that were pushed, and still are, and they're fantastic. I was never pushed, and I'm still playing. It depends on your kid. Let him grow a bit, and see if he's really interested.

**cyclopsbookworm** · #31 02-24-2013, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexlocurto

Some kids thrive with the right amount of push. I have friends that were pushed, and still are, and they're fantastic. I was never pushed, and I'm still playing. It depends on your kid. Let him grow a bit, and see if he's really interested.

+1 Well said.

mellowinman · #32 02-24-2013, 08:15 PM

I find you don't really have to push them all that hard. They're fairly light, and although they have a low center of gravity, they go over easy enough.

JimiLL · #33 02-24-2013, 08:21 PM

I wasnt interested in picking up a guitar until I was at least 12 or 13, and didnt learn to play bass until I was well into 14.

Let it be, my friend

christopherogut · #34 02-24-2013, 08:23 PM

For me, some of the biggest motivation to practice and improve comes from watching YouTube videos of other players! You two should sit down together for 10-15 minutes a day and watch a variety of stuff -- perhaps you'll come across a player, a style, a song, genre, etc, that motivates your son to put in some practice and embrace the idea of self-improvement. Just a thought.

At ten, my father wanted nothing more than for me to share his love of music and learn to play guitar. I had a hand-me-down acoustic, an older Ibanez electric guitar, and a great teacher in the house... but no real desire to play. I was a very bright child but gave up easily. The same goes for school music (baritone), chorus, etc. I gave up and got out of band and chorus as soon as possible. I had to sit through a semester of 'General Music' in middle school that was terrible. It wasn't until I left for college that I decided to pick up bass as a hobby to kill some free time and it was then that I really started to 'understand' music and wanted to learn songs, how to jam with others, etc. It ended up being a personal choice and desire instead of my father's desire for me to play.

hover · #35 02-24-2013, 08:24 PM

Replace "push" with "encourage" and the whole context of the thread would change...as has been said, the kid is 10. He's gotta either gravitate to it or it isn't gonna happen. Push their academics? Sure. But their extracurriculars? No way. Not at that age. Pushing is going to get you nowhere in the long run. Not claiming this is the case with the OP at all, but too many parents try to live vicariously through their children, and project their interests upon them. I can't subscribe to that. If what I enjoy peaks my kid's curiosity enough that they ask questions or want to see for themselves what it's all about...awesome. But I will never push it on them.

I let my kids have access to anything in the house they will use their time with, constructively and creatively, and driven by curiosity. Isn't that a better way of handling things in the long run? Let them figure out for themselves what they like on their own terms?

For the longest time years back my (now) 10 year old son wanted to play my drums. Then it was baseball. Then soccer. Then guitar. Then nothin but LEGOs. Now it's basketball and minecraft and reading tons of books. Pretty a-ok with me.

lostinjanuary · #36 02-24-2013, 08:32 PM

I'm so grateful that my daughter is so into playing piano that she isn't allowed to play until homework and chore are done. Video games, internet, tv are all available, but she chooses piano most of the time.

**Astreaux** · #37 02-24-2013, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatherG

My son is on his second instrument - the bassoon. He's 12 and the rule in our house is simple: a one-year commitment of lessons and practice before you are allowed to switch. But this time, he is actually in love with that thing - the notoriety and uniqueness don't hurt his 12 year old ego either. OTOH - we have no video gaming systems in our house and limit any "screen time" for our kids.

+1 on both accounts! One year commitment and NO VIDEO GAMES!

Attackofmike · #38 02-24-2013, 08:46 PM

Hi, I'm 16 and my first instrument was the piano when I was around 10. My parents didn't push me into learning anything, but they simply just offered to let me learn if I wanted to. So I played piano for 3 years and quit when I was 13 because I got tired of playing baroque and classical music lol.

Then I started listening to Green Day on the radio and wanted to learn bass on my own accord. I paid for my own equipment using birthday money and got my first Squier P Bass. My parents didn't really have to do anything but pay for my weekly lessons.

The following year, I picked up the electric guitar and continued to take lessons for both bass and guitar. Just last year, when I was 15, I also started to play double bass for my school's symphony orchestra, in addition to playing the electric bass for the jazz band.

I think its best to just give your son the opportunity to learn if he wants to, just like others have suggested. Maybe making him pay for his own gear in the future (he's still 10 haha) will give him an incentive to be committed to playing his instrument

. I use every bit of money I can get for bass or guitar gear, and I wouldn't think of tossing away all the time, money, and personal effort spent on my hobby lol.

Jazzdogg · #39 02-24-2013, 08:57 PM

When I first expressed an interest in playing a musical instrument, when I was 8 or 9, my non-musical, highly pragmatic, dad made me a deal: he would rent an instrument as long as I practiced and he was receiving good reports from my music teacher. I stuck with it, and when I was ready to buy my own instrument, I'd saved enough money from my paper route to buy a used bass of my own.

My interest in music skyrocketed when my step-dad, a professional jazz bassist, came along when I was about 12. He never pushed, but was always available if I had any questions, and he exposed me to the musicians he gigged with and live jazz, and turned me on to lots of great record albums. In fact, my step-dad is the person who turned me on to Tower of Power in '68, and taught me to play double bass.

An effective catalyst can make all the difference in the world!

Casting Thunder · #40 02-24-2013, 08:58 PM

I remember being 10, that was the last year I got a musical instrument as a present (without asking for it). I grew up with a drummer for an uncle and a mom who loved music but had no real musical talent.

When I was 11, I begun playing around with the piano, mom set me up with some books, and I kept up with it until I had to start using both hands and it became too hard. Now seven years later as I progress with my bass things are coming back to me that I taught myself on the piano.

I didn't know it back than, but my left hand was/is stiff, which is why playing the piano became so hard. I just pluck with my left hand now, so it's not difficult by any means. Maybe your kid just doesn't have the upper body strength yet?

No matter what your kid does, this time won't be a waste.