I got ripped off by Rock and Roll Vintage

[Beck McCartney]

So two years ago I bought a "1979" P bass from a shop in Chicago called Rock and Roll Vintage. I am now trying to sell the bass, but I'm having a lot of trouble. It turns out it is actually a 1982 p bass with a bad truss rod and non original pickups! I had a buyer return it and break all of this bad news to me. Even though it has been two years since i bought it, do you guys think that the shop should be held responsible and take the bass back?

[dalkowski]

With two years since your purchase, I think you're stuck, I'm afraid.

*** But first, what proof did your buyer give you that it was an 82?

I'm no attorney, but it seems that unless you have exhaustive documentation (including photos) of the instrument's condition when you bought it from R&RV, it's your word against theirs. Even then, I doubt your complaint would be heard. A lot can happen in 2 years. For instance, they can say you changed out the neck and pups.

Subbed.

[mulchor]

Dang! That sucks.

"should" be held responsible?

I'm thinking if they're the type that would rip you off, they're not the type that's going to hold themselves responsible.

Give them a call and let them have the chance to redeem themselves. But don't hold your breath.

[zachbass02]

that sucks...have you pulled all the parts to verify the buyers story? I dunno if you'd be able to get a shop to take responsiblity that long after the fact....but maybe. That's why I'm leary of buying vintage stuff....I just don't know enough to no get taken advantage of.

[Johnny Alien]

They may not have done it intentionally. If they are not experts those transitional models can be tough to date. They used late 70's serial numbers up into 1982 and if they went purely by that then they probably didnt know. There are alot of other details to date it but again it depends on how knowledgeable they are. There was someone on here trying to call an 82 bass a 78 awhile back.

[narud]

Originally Posted by dalkowski

With two years since your purchase, I think you're stuck, I'm afraid.

*** But first, what proof did your buyer give you that it was an 82?

I'm no attorney, but it seems that unless you have exhaustive documentation (including photos) of the instrument's condition when you bought it from R&RV, it's your word against theirs. Even then, I doubt your complaint would be heard. A lot can happen in 2 years. For instance, they can say you changed out the neck and pups.

Subbed.

sellers do this stuff all the time with late 70's early 80's fenders. they used s9 serial numbers up until around 82 and people will sell them using the serial as a way to date instead of pulling the neck or looking at the dates on the pot. my own "78" jazz has 1980 pots but an s8 serial. functionally its no different than one made in 78 but selling it as one would technically be wrong (even though it was sold to me as a 78)

[dalkowski]

Originally Posted by narud

sellers do this stuff all the time with late 70's early 80's fenders. they used s9 serial numbers up until around 82 and people will sell them using the serial as a way to date instead of pulling the neck or looking at the dates on the pot. my own "78" jazz has 1980 pots but an s8 serial. functionally its no different than one made in 78 but selling it as one would technically be wrong (even though it was sold to me as a 78)

Impetus for me to take apart my 77/78 P that I bought in the early 90s.

[TRichardsbass]

I think in this case, since you waited so long, you have no recourse.

I once thought about buying a vintage Danelectro from them but after getting some better pictures and looking at their description I realized that they really don't know the vintage market that well and that their price was about 3X high. Al Ciaola's near mint, completely authenticated 1959 six string Danelectro bass that was played in the studio on hundreds of hits and also used for leads on several movie tracks back in the day sold on eBay for just under $1200. R&RVintage had a 1959 Long horn in crap condition and was asking $2750.

Sorry. But maybe you should invest in the truss rod fix, and you'll be back in business. Worth the money if you want to sell.

[smcd]

Originally Posted by Beck McCartney

Even though it has been two years since i bought it, do you guys think that the shop should be held responsible and take the bass back?

No way. Not after 2 years.

[Johnny Alien]

There probably is not a HUGE price difference between an 82 transitional and a 78. The real issue is the broken truss rod and it would be tough to prove that it didn't happen in the 2 years after the sale.

[One Drop]

I think it's a question you should ask them first before posting here. At least give them the benefit of the doubt before calling them thieves.

[GlennW]

How is it you've had the bass two years and didn't know the truss rod was bad?

Maybe the buyer is mistaken, or doesn't know how to adjust it.

[Spinal Tapper]

I'd bet a lot of basses at most stores don't get the truss rod "checked" if they don't actually need an neck-relief adjustment when they come into a store.

They probably just make sure the TR screw isn't stripped or driven in too deep, adjust inotation/bridge saddles, and send it on it's merry way to the showroom or ebay store.

Plus, this was 2 years ago when you bought it, no way the shop would have to take responsibility in that. Sorry.

OTOH, I'd be willing to guess your buyer busted the truss rod when he got the bass from you, assuming you never turned it or had any problems with the neck relief.

Just looking at both sides of the ball.

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by Beck McCartney

So two years ago I bought a "1979" P bass from a shop in Chicago called Rock and Roll Vintage. I am now trying to sell the bass, but I'm having a lot of trouble. It turns out it is actually a 1982 p bass with a bad truss rod and non original pickups! I had a buyer return it and break all of this bad news to me. Even though it has been two years since i bought it, do you guys think that the shop should be held responsible and take the bass back?

How well do you know your prospective buyer? Are you sure he returned it in the same condition he took it in? Do you know that he didn't break the truss rod and/or swap out the pickups?

[progrmr]

Originally Posted by ggunn

How well do you know your prospective buyer? Are you sure he returned it in the same condition he took it in? Do you know that he didn't break the truss rod and/or swap out the pickups?

^^This...exactly what I was thinking.

[Spinal Tapper]

Originally Posted by ggunn

How well do you know your prospective buyer? Are you sure he returned it in the same condition he took it in? Do you know that he didn't break the truss rod and/or swap out the pickups?

I thought this too

I've dealt with Rock N Roll, and they're straight up guys that really know their stuff. They take extremely detailed pictures of everything on their online store, and while their asking prices are a little high, they have great knowledge of guitars and basses, and if you know what you're buying, you can haggle a bit.

My guess is your buyer didn't like the bass or f'd it up himself

[mike marciano]

There are many buyers who buy a bass and then swap out parts hoping you will not notice. Then send it back to you.
Im not saying this happened but after two years , its really a tough spot you are in.
Did it play good for those two years,
I would think you would have noticed right away the truss was bad, now its a little too late.
Mike

[Rocker949]

Based on what I'm reading here, I'd be more suspicious of the buyer than the shop, too.

[kayakbass]

Buyer beware....especially on the vintage market! You MAY be able to take them to small claims court if your reciept says that its the wrong year.. Good luck!

[fleabee]

I asked the old man who is an attorney. You have zero recourse at this point regardless of location in the USA. Hate to drop a number 2 on the parade.