i really dont like semi-washed up old musicians

[zongeek]

get this...
i work in a recording studio and i was letting a band in to do some stuff. and me and their bass player were talking gear and players and what not. we talked about hartke stuff, ashdown stuff, mesa stuff...etc. and then we moved on to talking about geddy lee and jeff berlin and jaco. well i told the guy i thought slap, all be it cool, was over rated. i also mentioned that i woudl like to work on tapping and get a better technique and all for that. so this guy laughs and says, "kid, if you ever want to get work, your gonna sit down shut the @&$^ up and play what the band leader gives you. jeff berlin is my friend and hes a great player, but he hasnt had work in 20 years because he wont do things other peoples way. if you want to do all that tapping youll have to go start your own band...." you see where its going. needless to say this doesnt make me happy. well then the guitar player showed up and started giving me even more grief. so i left.
now given these two fellas have been playing longer than ive been alive, but they auditioning people for a cover band jam at the local bar-b-q pit. so that said, i really dont like it when semi washed up old musicians tell me how to play my bass.
oh and not to mention in our conversation of bass players we not only mentioned the above but also stanley clark, michael manring and james jammerson. and both guys were like. "james jamerson is only bass player ive heard of that you just talked about." and both of these guys claimed to have gone to highschool with jaco (im in south florida so it could be true) so i mentioned michael had studied with jaco for a year. the guy replys, "yea jaco gave me some lessons, its not unheard of." i didnt get upset by the comment, but by his pious im better than you and that mike dude tone. oh well.

[Aaron Saunders]

James Jamerson REFUSED to slap for his entire career, even in the late sixties and really early seventies when producers wanted it all the time, and I think we all know just how "little" work Mr. Jamerson got .

And forgive me if I'm calling this guy an idiot, but unless I'm gravely mistaken (which is a possibility), hasn't Jeff Berlin been successfully teaching bass for a long time, and is a known-endorser of Dean instruments? It's kind of hard for someone with "no work" to have an endorsement deal, nay?

[zongeek]

i agree. those guys got and are getting work all the time im sure. but the real point is, if a bass player wants to slap or tap or whatever, then you dont have to pick them. but then again unlike this particular guy im not auditioning to join the badn for cover kasey kassums top 40...

[cheezewiz]

Originally Posted by zongeek

get this...
i work in a recording studio and i was letting a band in to do some stuff. and me and their bass player were talking gear and players and what not. we talked about hartke stuff, ashdown stuff, mesa stuff...etc. and then we moved on to talking about geddy lee and jeff berlin and jaco. well i told the guy i thought slap, all be it cool, was over rated. i also mentioned that i woudl like to work on tapping and get a better technique and all for that. so this guy laughs and says, "kid, if you ever want to get work, your gonna sit down shut the @&$^ up and play what the band leader gives you. jeff berlin is my friend and hes a great player, but he hasnt had work in 20 years because he wont do things other peoples way. if you want to do all that tapping youll have to go start your own band...." you see where its going. needless to say this doesnt make me happy. well then the guitar player showed up and started giving me even more grief. so i left.
now given these two fellas have been playing longer than ive been alive, but they auditioning people for a cover band jam at the local bar-b-q pit. so that said, i really dont like it when semi washed up old musicians tell me how to play my bass.
oh and not to mention in our conversation of bass players we not only mentioned the above but also stanley clark, michael manring and james jammerson. and both guys were like. "james jamerson is only bass player ive heard of that you just talked about." and both of these guys claimed to have gone to highschool with jaco (im in south florida so it could be true) so i mentioned michael had studied with jaco for a year. the guy replys, "yea jaco gave me some lessons, its not unheard of." i didnt get upset by the comment, but by his pious im better than you and that mike dude tone. oh well.

Sounds to me like you could benefit from their experience. Guys aren't around for a long time by sucking. If you are lucky, you'll have been playing long enough and succesfully enough for someone to call you washed up.

[JSCHRO7376]

music is all about passion IMO. Do what your heart tells you.

[Freaky Fender]

I agree with Cheezy-Wiz. If you do want to play, sometimes you have to suck it up, swallow your pride, play what's in front of you, and just have fun. Remember that it's a privalege to play the bass. You could have been born with some sort of odd angles wrist, or something that would make be able to not play.

[bmc]

Semi washed up old musicans?

Ouch. That hurts. I might just fall into that category. So does Duck Dunn, I guess.

I've been at this a long time. 33 years to be exact.

What he should have said was:

*Learn all styles of music.
*Practice.
*Learn as much as you can.
*Play with as many musicians as you can.
*Have an open mind to music and to other musicians opinions and ideas. They may someday want to hire a bass player or know someone looking for a bass player.
*Learn from other musicans. If you're not learning, you're washed up.
*Try to refrain from putting down other musicans. It's not professional.

[bluntman_bass]

players that have been around for a long time know lots of stuff and usually know what they r talking about and can be quit good, but this guy sounds like he is just some pushover that does what everybody tells him instead of what he wants to do,

play however u like, tell everybody else where to go

[zongeek]

well thank you all for your input. lots lof lessons to be learned/already learned here. i think maybe saying washed up wanst good...oh well

i agree whole heartedly with FF and chezzywiz. i just thought they hey im not a session guy what does it matter. and i still do, but i do agree never the less. but i think bmc said it all. thanks guys for the concil and help. and again my apologies to all the elder rockers. peace

[Josh Ryan]

Originally Posted by cheezewiz

Sounds to me like you could benefit from their experience. Guys aren't around for a long time by sucking. If you are lucky, you'll have been playing long enough and succesfully enough for someone to call you washed up.

Got to agree with the cheese here. Sure, play what you want but if you were to audition for the guys cover band, sit down, stfu, and play what he tells you. It sounds like your taking it a little to seriously. -Also, every new technique is over rated for a while. ...think of it as a pendulum thats starts off on the heavy side.

[The Golden Boy]

I think the ability to get along and "play the game" is more important than individual technique or even any level of virtuosity if you want to be playing with people. (even to the point of 'dumbing down' what you believe to be an amazing bass line for the sake of the song)

As far as being "washed up" and playing in a cover band, after you get to a certain age you figure out you're not going to be a rock star- and the realistic money comes in cover bands. At a big gig last month the stage manager of the stage we were playing said a major label A&R guy said our sound was right up his label's alley, but not our look (I think it's because 3/5 of the band is over 30).

[Boplicity]

Originally Posted by zongeek

well thank you all for your input. lots lof lessons to be learned/already learned here. i think maybe saying washed up wanst good...oh well

At sixty, I definitely do qualify as one of those semi-washed up old bass players. It happens. It even could happen to you sooner or later.

[thrash_jazz]

Originally Posted by zongeek

get this...
i work in a recording studio and i was letting a band in to do some stuff. and me and their bass player were talking gear and players and what not. we talked about hartke stuff, ashdown stuff, mesa stuff...etc. and then we moved on to talking about geddy lee and jeff berlin and jaco. well i told the guy i thought slap, all be it cool, was over rated. i also mentioned that i woudl like to work on tapping and get a better technique and all for that. so this guy laughs and says, "kid, if you ever want to get work, your gonna sit down shut the @&$^ up and play what the band leader gives you. jeff berlin is my friend and hes a great player, but he hasnt had work in 20 years because he wont do things other peoples way. if you want to do all that tapping youll have to go start your own band...." you see where its going. needless to say this doesnt make me happy. well then the guitar player showed up and started giving me even more grief. so i left.
now given these two fellas have been playing longer than ive been alive, but they auditioning people for a cover band jam at the local bar-b-q pit. so that said, i really dont like it when semi washed up old musicians tell me how to play my bass.
oh and not to mention in our conversation of bass players we not only mentioned the above but also stanley clark, michael manring and james jammerson. and both guys were like. "james jamerson is only bass player ive heard of that you just talked about." and both of these guys claimed to have gone to highschool with jaco (im in south florida so it could be true) so i mentioned michael had studied with jaco for a year. the guy replys, "yea jaco gave me some lessons, its not unheard of." i didnt get upset by the comment, but by his pious im better than you and that mike dude tone. oh well.

I hate to break it to you man, but the old boy was right - even if he was being a total a$$ about it. What's right for him might not be right for you in the end, but you WILL get the most work by keeping things simple. He didn't have to be so condescending about it, but there's a lot of that around unfortunately.

Just because he was playing in a cover band doesn't mean he hasn't been in and around the business. Even if your chops are better than his, he'll still be able to school you in the all-important experience factor. Don't confuse the two...

[Bad Brains]

Ignore what he said....he's in a cover band. I'm usually against cover bands. I just don't see any interest in re-creating someone elses work. Use your influences to create something your own.

[Bard2dbone]

Originally Posted by bmc

Semi washed up old musicans?

Ouch. That hurts. I might just fall into that category. So does Duck Dunn, I guess.

I've been at this a long time. 33 years to be exact.

What he should have said was:

*Learn all styles of music.
*Practice.
*Learn as much as you can.
*Play with as many musicians as you can.
*Have an open mind to music and to other musicians opinions and ideas. They may someday want to hire a bass player or know someone looking for a bass player.
*Learn from other musicans. If you're not learning, you're washed up.
*Try to refrain from putting down other musicans. It's not professional.

The only part of this post that didn't go for me as well was how many years I've played.(25-ish)

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Boplicity

At sixty, I definitely do qualify as one of those semi-washed up old bass players. It happens. It even could happen to you sooner or later.

Of course, the point is that it will!!

So - very few people actually make it as professional musicians as a % of the population, but it's fun to play with other people and there will come a time when you get together with friends to have some fun and all of this will apply - let's hope some young kid is there to point out that you are a washed-up, old musician, eh?

[nonsqtr]

Originally Posted by zongeek

get this...
i work in a recording studio and i was letting a band in to do some stuff. and me and their bass player were talking gear and players and what not. we talked about hartke stuff, ashdown stuff, mesa stuff...etc. and then we moved on to talking about geddy lee and jeff berlin and jaco. well i told the guy i thought slap, all be it cool, was over rated. i also mentioned that i woudl like to work on tapping and get a better technique and all for that. so this guy laughs and says, "kid, if you ever want to get work, your gonna sit down shut the @&$^ up and play what the band leader gives you. jeff berlin is my friend and hes a great player, but he hasnt had work in 20 years because he wont do things other peoples way. if you want to do all that tapping youll have to go start your own band...." you see where its going. needless to say this doesnt make me happy. well then the guitar player showed up and started giving me even more grief. so i left.
now given these two fellas have been playing longer than ive been alive, but they auditioning people for a cover band jam at the local bar-b-q pit. so that said, i really dont like it when semi washed up old musicians tell me how to play my bass.
oh and not to mention in our conversation of bass players we not only mentioned the above but also stanley clark, michael manring and james jammerson. and both guys were like. "james jamerson is only bass player ive heard of that you just talked about." and both of these guys claimed to have gone to highschool with jaco (im in south florida so it could be true) so i mentioned michael had studied with jaco for a year. the guy replys, "yea jaco gave me some lessons, its not unheard of." i didnt get upset by the comment, but by his pious im better than you and that mike dude tone. oh well.

Wellll.... the guy may have a point. But he still sounds like a real idiot. I probably wouldn't last long in his band.

[The Golden Boy]

Originally Posted by Govithoy

James Jamerson REFUSED to slap for his entire career, even in the late sixties and really early seventies when producers wanted it all the time, and I think we all know just how "little" work Mr. Jamerson got .

Actually, didn't Jamerson pretty much lose his job because he refused to change anything (including his strings )? So, in effect, you're saying that the best bass player in his genre, sitting on top of the world, taking a lion's share of the work, can be reduced to sporadic work at best because of his refusal to play by the rules.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by The Golden Boy

Actually, didn't Jamerson pretty much lose his job because he refused to change anything (including his strings )? So, in effect, you're saying that the best bass player in his genre, sitting on top of the world, taking a lion's share of the work, can be reduced to sporadic work at best because of his refusal to play by the rules.

Yup and he died relatively poor and with little public recognition for what he had done...

But this was at least in part due to his alcoholism etc.

[Aaron Saunders]

...yes.