I still don't understand "Black Dog"

chuck norriss · #1 03-22-2011, 03:07 PM

I can't read music. can someone explain *** is happening with the timing? can't seem to count it out but sure as hell feelin it

the beginning of "Rock and Roll" too, for that matter.

jaywa · #2 03-22-2011, 03:18 PM

Just wondering... if you can feel it, why do you need to know how to count it out?

Is someone else in your band not "feeling it" and you're trying to explain it? "Black Dog" in particular is a song I've never even tried to count out... I just go with what I hear, keep a close eye on the drummer, and it's always worked out.

AltGrendel · #3 03-22-2011, 03:37 PM

If you listen real carefully, you can hear Bonham click his sticks one beat before they hit the riff.

That's your secret.

BigOldHarry · #4 03-22-2011, 03:50 PM

yeah, it's tricky.

chuck norriss · #5 03-22-2011, 04:01 PM

jaywa, thats a terrible explanation youre fired
grendel, if you listen closely bonham hits his sticks throughout the bloody song!
harry, thank you what is your consultation fee

easy enough to count out the 8's during obvious plain parts but damn i cant figure out teh beginning if my life depended on it

damn i just gave this girl a hug now i smell her perfume on my clothes its driving me crazy grrrrr

**nutdog** · #6 03-22-2011, 04:04 PM

The main thing is to remember a big legged woman ain't got no soul. After that it all makes sense.

jaywa · #7 03-22-2011, 04:05 PM

Near as I can tell, Plant sticks pretty much to 4/4 on the vocal and then they wait an extra beat (or just a tisch longer) before going into the riff.

jaywa · #8 03-22-2011, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutdog

The main thing is to remember a big legged woman ain't got no soul. After that it all makes sense.

I always thought it was big-LIP woman. ? ? ?

jnuts1 · #9 03-22-2011, 04:08 PM

i'd watch out guys, roundhouse kick related fatalities have risen 300% since this guy joined in january

BigOldHarry · #10 03-22-2011, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuck norriss

jaywa, thats a terrible explanation youre fired
grendel, if you listen closely bonham hits his sticks throughout the bloody song!
harry, thank you what is your consultation fee

First one is free. After that, you PAY, baby!!!

rythman6969 · #11 03-22-2011, 04:10 PM

it rally is 4/4 but the guitar and bass riff is pretty nutty to have come up with. that's why it still kicks it. but if you follow the drums it's 4/4 back beat the whole way. The rests are felt out and yeah, you hear bonham "count" it off with the click.

**Pacman** · #12 03-22-2011, 04:16 PM

Actually, I'm pretty sure (not near my iPod to check it right now) it's in 5/4 and Bonham plays in 4/4.

And it's big legged woman....

rythman6969 · #13 03-22-2011, 04:27 PM

i just listened and i count 16s and landing on the ones.

SundanceChile · #14 03-22-2011, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

Actually, I'm pretty sure (not near my iPod to check it right now) it's in 5/4 and Bonham plays in 4/4.

And it's big legged woman....

I know for a fact it's in 5/4(had the sheet music, since loaned it out to piano buddy), but I think it breaks into 12/8 too...

HolmeBass · #15 03-22-2011, 04:28 PM

It's definitely big-legged woman.

There are transcriptions, you could look and even though you can't read music you could tell if they change the time signature at some point during the song- it would start out at 4/4 (or maybe 5/4?) and then at some point for a bar or two would be not 4/4.

Bob C · #16 03-22-2011, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HolmeBass

There are transcriptions, you could look and even though you can't read music you could tell if they change the time signature at some point during the song- it would start out at 4/4 (or maybe 5/4?) and then at some point for a bar or two would be not 4/4.

Exactly. Same deal with the intro to "Rock and Roll" that you mentioned. Lots of songs have time signature changes for a measure or two, or a whole passage.

"White Room" by Cream has the intro(s) in 5/4 and the rest of the song in 4/4.

"Stairway To Heaven" has several changes going into the lead solo too.

jerry · #17 03-23-2011, 03:46 AM

Do the live version, they evened the breaks out live.

geoff_in_nc · #18 03-23-2011, 04:16 AM

Even better do the Dread Zeppelin version.

Hoover · #19 03-23-2011, 03:20 PM

Three words: syncopation, fermatas, and pickups

(or "pickup notes" ...but that still counts as one word!)

Based on just humming the tune in my head, I'm pretty sure it's mostly in 4/4, but I'll happily do a transcription to confirm this when I get near a recording. But basically there's a ton of syncopation (displaced accents), fermatas (pauses where notes and/or rests are held beyond their metric value because "time stops" [sic]), and pickup notes...e.g., those three notes at the beginning of every verse riff are pickups, and then the fourth note is the downbeat.

Lazylion · #20 03-23-2011, 03:55 PM

I dunno, I've always found that big-legged women have just as much soul as anybody else, and sometimes more!

And a big +1 to geoff in nc's suggestion!