Indian music on fretless bass

**Vorago** · #1 10-12-2006, 01:51 PM

I'm listening to a lot of Sitar music right now, along with jazz that incorporates indian influences (Aka Moon, Prassana) etc.

I have a fretless bass, so I was wondering if it's possible to get the Indian quarter note system going on a bass or not? JP Thesseling is touching this subject on his website http://www.jeroenthesseling.com/ but what I'd like to see is Indian scales (if you can even call them that way, I dunno) projected on a normal bass guitar.

Any ideas?

SnoMan · #2 10-12-2006, 02:55 PM

I hope Jimbo sees this thread. He plays sitar and bass.

The BurgerMeister · #3 10-12-2006, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorago

I'm listening to a lot of Sitar music right now, along with jazz that incorporates indian influences (Aka Moon, Prassana) etc.

I have a fretless bass, so I was wondering if it's possible to get the Indian quarter note system going on a bass or not? JP Thesseling is touching this subject on his website http://www.jeroenthesseling.com/ but what I'd like to see is Indian scales (if you can even call them that way, I dunno) projected on a normal bass guitar.

Any ideas?

it is definitely do-able on fretless. think about it: if you don't have a strictly defined note system on your bass (ie frets), then logically you can play any possible frequency with it. quarter tones fall "between" two frets... right in the middle of a half-step.

sitars DO have frets, but they are sort of "convex," while the fretboard is "concave." so you can push the string further "into" the board, thus bending the note by quarter-, third-, fifth-, or even forty-second-notes.

it's a little hard to explain... easier seen that worded, as it were. plus, i'm sure there's alot i'm missing. but i hope that i've helped a little, at least.

i don't know where to get notated indian scales... that's for someone else to answer. but i don't think indian music uses the same western notation system we use.

good luck!

**Vorago** · #4 10-13-2006, 02:17 AM

Thanks for the replies guys!

Keep 'em coming!

Mudfuzz · #5 10-13-2006, 02:28 AM

Yes.
Think about a sarod for a minute, fretless SS fingerboard.

Also check this site out ragmala a good forum for ICM stuff.

tkozal · #6 10-13-2006, 06:06 AM

I do this all the time. There are a couple of records from Najma in the late 80's and early 90's that feature a sliding fretless in the traditional role.

You can have a lot of fun really working on the rags on a fretless. I find ground wounds or half rounds work better.

BTW, I bought the Nimbus 4 CD guide to Ragas recently, the price had come way down, I think I paid like $30 bucks. Comes with a great book analysing and giving the music for each rag, essential stuff.

vindy500 · #7 10-13-2006, 06:09 AM

train your ear up mate

Mudfuzz · #8 11-26-2006, 05:03 AM

For some reason this tread popped into mind.

Ever heard West Eats Meat by Ravi Shankar? Patrick O'Hearn plays some real nice fretless on that one.

Salsadood · #9 11-26-2006, 05:21 AM

Studying Indian music is a huge undertaking! as I found out when a freind who plays Sarangi introduced me to North Indian Classical, Instrumental & Vocal music.
I'd recommend listening Sarangi stuff as well as sitar though.

mkidder · #10 11-26-2006, 05:57 AM

I did some research on this a couple of years ago. Fretless works great as well as double bass. Some of their 'scales' are very similiar to western scales, usually with a different spelling on the ascending/descending. Try this link to get started.
http://chandrakantha.com/articles/in...usic/raga.html
click on 'that' on the second line in the middle of the page. Hope this helps.

tkozal · #11 11-26-2006, 06:15 AM

Man, last night I listened to a great live boot of Shawn Lane, Jonas Hellborg and a drummer named Marchessini from some private show in Calcutta.

Jonas has this DOWN. A rock power trio bascially playing Indian rags, some great stuff. Shawn Lane will truly be missed.

jady · #12 11-26-2006, 10:49 AM

Check out Trilok Gurtu. He has Kia Eckhardt on bass and uses a fusion of western fusion and traditional Indian music. Also Garaj Mahal, Kia's fusion/jam band great stuff with an indian flair.

Mudfuzz · #13 11-26-2006, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkidder

Try this link to get started.
http://chandrakantha.com/articles/in...usic/raga.html
click on 'that' on the second line in the middle of the page. Hope this helps.

+1 great site.
Here are a few others I found useful too, this is mostly very similar info though:

musicalnirvana raaga basics
Ragas and Western Scales
The melakarta raagas
North Indian Classical Music Pentatonic Ragas
(Ragas using 5-note scales)
vox mundi project RECOMMENDED READINGS

Jimbo · #14 11-29-2006, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnoMan

I hope Jimbo sees this thread. He plays sitar and bass.

sorry i'm so late to going the party

first off, the idea of semi-tones is more commonly seen in carnatic music (south india) than in hindustani music (north india). prasana is a great example of carnatic style on a guitar. check out his website http://www.guitarprasanna.com/
there's a section with some lessons/articles he's written. interesting stuff seeing how he combines east and west. most of the guys we've heard of (ravi shankar, nikhil banarjee, vilayay khan) mainly play hindustani

i've been fooling around with my sitar/bass hybrid ideas lately. my schooling is in hindustani music and i'm yet to dive into any kind of microtone usage. i do play a fretless bass mainly and like it for this application because you can slide from one note to another. this is as close as i'm able to get to mimicing a sitar player's meend which is pulling of the strings. we think of it as bending, however sitarists bend a lot bigger intervals than any guitarist i've heard. meend is the cornerstone of sitar playing and is what i always think first when i think sitar music. i'd love to try out a scalloped fretboard to see what kind of meend i could get out of it!

those websites posted above will definitely help you in learning some raagas. there are tons of raagas that don't use semitones. from there it's up to your imagination! when i have time to peel myself away from my school work i've been tinkering with ways to incorporate ideas from both sides. i'll try to post if i come up with anything solid. prasana definitely has the best ideas i've seen!

bongomania · #15 11-30-2006, 01:37 AM

Glen Moore has done a fair amount of work over the last couple decades incorporating Indian and Middle Eastern musical structures.

Peter McFerrin · #16 11-30-2006, 02:53 AM

Any fretless instrument can be used in both northern and southern forms. The violin is so widely used in Indian music that there are probably many Indians who think that the instrument was invented there, rather than having been introduced during the Raj.

Speaking of Indian violinists, is Lakshminarayana Shankar (AKA "L. Shankar") considered a "legit" guy in Indian classical music, given how much work he's done in Western contexts?

The BurgerMeister · #17 11-30-2006, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbo

i'd love to try out a scalloped fretboard to see what kind of meend i could get out of it!

i think with light enough strings you could get some pretty drastic intervallic play with a scalloped fretboard.

but i think you'd have to have a really thick and strong neck to get some deep scallops going... so you could really dig in!

KPJ · #18 11-30-2006, 03:48 AM

Very interesting stuff! Thanks for the links, all!

Mark Perry · #19 11-30-2006, 04:27 AM

Can an anyone post a link where you can hear a quarter tone scale?

fraublugher · #20 11-30-2006, 02:47 PM

cant have a microtonal thread without Harry Partch
http://musicmavericks.publicradio.or...re_partch.html